KONA BLUE with Richard Dolan and Micah Hanks

Show Transcript

This is going to be a full analysis on the 56 page document of Kona Blue released by the Department of Homeland Security, which was then posted on the Arrow website with UFO researcher Richard Dolan, the debrief chief Micah Hanks, and Fade to Black host Jimmy Church. Before we get into it, right off the bat. What I noticed in the document was a beach. I know what came to mind this scene right here from contact. And funny enough, I saw some comments that were that said the exact same thing of, you know what? That image looks just like this screenshot that we're seeing on screen right here. And my question is, to me, it looked a little bit too close. And I thought, is this a nudge or a little wink to people that are in the know for this? Or am I thinking a little too outside of the box? Before we get into the meat and potatoes of this document, I'm going to bring in my special guests and hosts just to hear their thoughts on that alone. Jimmy, what did you think about the first image from the document? Well, good afternoon, everyone. Let's get that out of the way. Man, he's just jumping in, swinging for the fences out of the gate, Christina. And I can't get out of my question, which is what made you want to do this this week? Well, you know what? I think I will let Richard answer that question for me for the first time ever. Yeah, yeah, Richard, the movie Contact, right? And that scene at the end of the movie is so dramatic, and it's so cool, and it's so emotional. And we all know that scene. This is eerily reminiscent of the movie Contact, isn't it? It kind of is, although I agree with that. But when I saw it, I actually thought Kona Blue with this. Kona Blue sounds like a tropical vacation package name. So I was like, oh, have Kona Blue come here to the beach. That was actually my first thought when I looked at that. Mine was coffee. Kona Blue Coffee. I swear. I could see you doing that on your show. Drink Kona Blue Coffee. That rich, nutty flavor. I could hear that. It's dark. But yeah, yeah, yeah. It is interesting imagery. And if they were trying to do a reference to contact, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised because what we're seeing with Kona Blue is that I mean, this, well, I don't want to jump ahead of anyone here, but this program, which a week ago I had no idea it even existed or I hadn't really thought about it. But this clearly was at least one, if not of several, but at least one attempted continuation of the OSAP ATIP programs. And, boy, is that interesting. I mean, we've all kind of known that AATIP didn't actually end in 2012. But we didn't really, I didn't, and I don't know if anyone else had detailed information about what might have proceeded afterward. And not that this actually supposedly went anywhere. This one supposedly didn't, but I'm going to definitely guess that there are programs that have continued onward. Let's not get ahead of our skis because I think that's a very, very, very important point. And as this document continues, I think that is one of the assessments that you naturally go to. Let me present this to everybody. Originally, when the Arrow report came out last month, month and a half ago, in that report, it was, and Richard and I did a show on it, and Christina and I did a show on it too as well, and it was just information. Okay, except the Kona Blue mention in there was, for me, was the eye-opener. I thought to myself, there's John Greenwald, there's your FOIA right there, right? Kona Blue. And that was going to happen. And in this case, the Department of Defense released this on their own. Right now, the document that was released is 58 pages. It was declassified by Richard D. McComb, OHS, Chief of Security Officer, and he declassified it, Richard, I don't know if you caught this, on 7-18-2023. So this was declassified last year. So was this because of Arrow reaching out? There was a letter also in the report about that declassification process and the release. The FOIA requests by John Greenwald, according to John, are still ongoing and are still being processed. The DOD document, now, when you look at page one, and we'll start to break this apart in just a second, but the first point that is made is that this is a history and origin of Kona Blue. Point number two, that Kona Blue was to be an extension of the OSAP ATIP program. And the third point that they bring out in the beginning. is the letter. It's a letter to the Honorable Kathleen H. Hicks, there it is, Deputy Secretary of Defense from Christy Canagallo, Acting Deputy Secretary of the DHS. Now, this is what the letter says. It says the Department of Homeland Security, DHS, agrees to provide the Department of Defense, DOD, with documents and relative information associated with Kona Blue. Kona Blue was a DHS prospective special access program, PSAP, terminated on February 10th, 2012. The following actions were taken. One, all DHS documents associated with the Kono Blue PSAP are declassified and approved for public release. Very interesting. The strikeout method was utilized to retain visibility of prior classifications and redactions were made based on policy and legal review. Number three, all pertinent DHS records have been searched and no additional information associated with the Kona Blue PSAP have been discovered. Now, I want you to scroll down a little bit, Christina, if you can, because this is, you can, right there, stop. Okay, this is the top secret strikeouts that were just referenced. It says top secret, Kona Blue, no foreign. No foreign for everybody means not releasable to foreign nationals. I find that very interesting. And then underneath that, it says handle via special access channels only. Now, originally, that's the way this document was treated. It was top secret. And now you can see underneath that with the new classification of unclassified. Richard, when you saw the top secret, and Christina, when you see the top secret Kona Blue no-forn classification applied to this, what went through your mind? The level of information that was in this document. I'll jump in first, I guess, although Christina should jump in as well. But Uh, well, the, the main thing that I, uh, that I was struck by is, I mean, first of all, um, I did catch the. the July 18th, 2023 date when it was declassified. And that, of course, if anyone remembers, that was in the midst of all of the craziness going on with Congress and UAP hearings. This is when we were listening to David Grush. It was either that day or around that day. So everything was happening. The Schumer Amendment was introduced within a day or two of that, I think two days earlier. And so a lot was happening, and this clearly was part of that whole process, except no one, we didn't know about it. To your question, well, the other thing that struck me is, I mean, this program never really seemed to get off the ground. If it was canceled in 2012, that's when AATIP itself was, we're told, was canceled. And Kona Blue, which was supposed to be an extension of it, basically I mean, it did get this top secret status for it had to be a very short period of time before it was ended. So it just seemed to have really gone nowhere. What you mentioned, Richard, is actually a brilliant point of this document was released, and I'm putting that in quotation marks, during that timeframe, during the whistleblower hearing that took place in Congress in July of last year. And the question is, why then? But on top of that, why is it being made public now? Before you answer that, actually, I'm seeing in the comments that people are saying, well, where's Micah? I know he's doing... He did a pre-recorded segment for us. He's actually out of town recording some stuff. Yesterday was his birthday, by the way, so make sure to say happy birthday to him. But we will be playing that clip and his thoughts on this a little bit later. Now, going back to the question to both you, Jimmy, and Richard, why do you think after sitting on it for so many months, why do you think it's being made public now? Just because someone files something, FOIA, for instance, it doesn't mean that they have to comply. Why do you think it was released? You know, I'll jump in first because I thought about that a lot. And what we have going on at the same time, and we would have to assume this, John Greenwald has his connections at the Department of Defense and the Pentagon. Everybody knows John Greenwald there. He makes a FOIA request, and I'm not saying he gets a hall pass and he goes to the front of the line. But he does have connections. He's got relationships that have been built up over 25 years. And so maybe the process had started on Kona Blue and the documents were pulled up and they were declassified and they were already redacted and they were labeled back in 2023 available for public release. So, yeah, now they said here that all documents pertaining to Kona Blue, this is it. This is all that there is. We'll see if John goes a step further and is able to pull something else out. But I think that the Department of Defense just decided to release it because it was going to go FOIA. It's already been declassified and has been removed. given the designation acceptable for public release. And so I just think that they just released it because there was no reason not to. And it was mentioned in the Arrow report, which was released to the public. That's just my assumption. But Richard, what do you think? Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense. I don't really take issue with anything you've just said there, Jimmy. I think And also, I mean, I don't know what they're actually giving up here. There's some interesting new little tidbits, but essentially what they're giving up is a program that never got off the ground, so to speak, according to everything that they've said. So You know, this is actually a lot easier. Remember 30 years ago, the whole remote viewing program was outed by DOD back in 1995, I think it was. In that case, the program was about to be outed as well. People like Jim Mars were doing research on it. And what they did at that time is they released it and had major spin out there saying, well, we tried this for a while, but it didn't really do anything. There was nothing about it that was unusual or successful, which was wrong, which was a lie. But this is how they do things. They give things up when they are able to downplay their significance. In the case of Kona Blue... There's really not a whole lot of meat to dig into. There's some interesting little breadcrumbs that are here that hopefully we can discuss. But essentially what the Pentagon is publicizing here is a dead program that was essentially, if I can say this, stillborn. It didn't really go anywhere once it started. It didn't have a life. And so from the Pentagon's PR point of view, and a lot of this is all about PR, You know, they could honestly say they're really not giving up anything that's all that significant. Now, let's stay on that point for a second, if we can. If you are reviewing a proposal like this and you know, especially at that level of advancing from a PSAP, a proposed SAP, to SAP status under full protective status of an SAP, which is outlined in this proposal on why it should be a special access program, that you know that that these programs are already in place, right? Lockheed is doing their thing. General Electric is doing their thing. We've got stuff going on at Edwards and Area 51 and Northrop Grumman. We might take issue with that. I don't know how widespread these special access programs really are to... to even highly responsible officials. I mean, look, we all a couple of years ago went through the whole Davis Wilson saga, but I just will remind listeners that when you get into the implications of that document, there was little to no genuine oversight over multiple special access programs dealing with ET or alien tech in one form or another. Wilson discovered, I mean, there was a small, tiny group of people within the, what was called SAPOC, the Special Access Programs Oversight Committee within the office of the Undersecretary, Oustad, Undersecretary of Science and technology, I forget the total acronym, but you've got less, maybe three or four people who seem to have had any kind of oversight over these. And that's within the Defense Department. Congress would have no information about this whatsoever. So these programs are really very, very tightly guarded. And it's not clear to me that like what you're just saying here, that people reviewing this proposed program would have any idea that there were multiple other such programs out there, unless they went through a process like what Wilson had gone through. So I'm not so sure. Not just tightly guarded, Richard, but as we're seeing in this graph right here, it's very compartmentalized. You have the DHS, and then you have all of these companies getting their hands involved in this research as well, which we can assume happens with a lot of these types of programs where the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. For me, I find it interesting that it's even displayed in this document exactly what people have been considering for the last few decades. Jimmy, for you, when you came across this graph, what was going through your mind in that moment? I think that this page and the ones immediately after it, specifically page 11, starts to reveal this. Now, let me jump into this. On page 10... is the budgeting and the proposed funding necessary to complete the effort of reverse engineering this craft, figuring out how it works, applying remote viewing, a consciousness center and all of that. Fiscal year 2012 was a minimum of $12 million. Fiscal year 2013 was $25 million. Fiscal year 14, 35 to 50 million. And then it jumps to fiscal year 17 plus to be determined. And then on page 11, Richard, I want to point all of this out to you and then get your analysis on this. Because it says there's going to be four centers here. And all of them remind me of Bigelow. Bigelow's name was redacted. There was a few things redacted, but Bigelow as the building owner was redacted. We'll get to that. Number one, the National Institute for Discovery Center. Well, that certainly sounds like nids to me, right? Did you say Discovery Center or Discovery Science? No, in this proposal, it says center. It doesn't say Discovery Science. Okay. Okay, so that's the National Institute for Discovery Center, the Data Collection Division, the Experimental Division, which is labeled here, it's Skinwalker Ranch. They talk about it very specifically. The Medical Division and the Data Analysis Division. Number two, the Advanced Technology Center that would access recovered advanced technology and any earlier assessments to determine threat capability and any potential countermeasures possible against the advanced technology. Next point, collect oral histories from already identified sources. Retire military, intelligence, contractor, personnel to assist in locating additional recovered advanced technology. That's a very interesting point in this. Number three, the consciousness center, right? Right. Critical data utilizing remote sensing, remote viewing, in order to determine the activity and purpose of the advanced technology, especially any threat posed. In an expanded role, remote sensing and related techniques may present an invaluable aid in countering illicit activities conducted against the United States and demonstrations of a capability will be made. Okay, and the last point, the integration center. The focal point for the integration of information and data from other centers and report in writing follow on basic and applied research proposals and efforts to be identified. And then it follows up on page 19. It mentions... what Jacques Vallée has talked about, the 200,000 reports, right? And describes each center on that page. Now, what do you think about this breakdown? Is this just bass? Is this just nids? And is this OSAP part two? Well, yeah. What it struck me as and strikes me as is, These guys, we're really talking about the NIDS organization, Bigelow, and everyone with him. Have to assume people like Hal Puthoff, have to assume other people were kind of read into this. I'm going to guess Kit Green. I don't know. I'm going to guess John Alexander. I'm going to guess Jacques Vallée. They all, I believe that they, and I, the military people that they've talked to, because all of this is acting as if we're having covert military encounters with these craft and we can't deal with them. I mean, to me, this sounds like a secret little alarm bell that's going off by them. Lots of folks in the UFO field love to talk about how the Pentagon's engaging in fear mongering. talking about potential threats. I mean, how many times have I heard people go after Lou Elizondo for that? But from my point of view, when I look at the history of this phenomenon and its encounters with the United States military and militaries of other nations, because the U.S. is not alone, there are countless confrontational and at times disturbing encounters that have taken place. Now, it's not like an Independence Day where they're trying to blow up the White House, but they have the ability to disable very advanced technology that we have. And look, if you're in the military, you have to be concerned about that. It's your job. And so we're seeing that attitude displayed right here. There's a clear recognition that this is a genuine, real phenomenon that clearly they don't have a handle over or they don't have control over. This very much continues the track that what we know happened under OSAP when Hal Puthoff working for Robert Bigelow was contracted to get requests from roughly I think 50 scientists in different parts of the world on leading edge science issues connected to the UFO subject without him telling them that. So this is why they got papers on wormhole technology, wormhole theories and physics of black holes and physics of invisibility and all of this stuff, which got roundly criticized by the mainstream scientific community that knew absolutely nothing about what's actually going on in this field. So they were trying to get a handle on the science back in like 2009 when those papers went out. And so now here we are just a few years later, and the exact same attitude is on display. It's an attempt to get on top of the science. What is the science of these AAVs, these advanced aerospace vehicles, as they call them? So nothing has changed. This was literally, you could say almost a last gasp attempt by this group to keep their program going. And I would say almost desperate enough to try to get it anywhere, including DHS. Like one would not normally think of DHS as housing it. Although it's very interesting because special access programs can be hidden pretty much anywhere. I mean, we know about them in the DOD. We know about them in the CIA. We know about them in the Department of Energy, although no one seems to have any access or information about those, and they may be the most secret of all. But you could really, in theory, hide a special access program anywhere. And so on that basis, DHS could be perhaps useful, but it didn't go anywhere, apparently, at least not this one. I'm curious about any others that may actually happen. That's right. I think that's one of the best points. And staying on the reasons for justification for special access program status, there is a multiple tiered reason for that. And you have to address each one of those points correctly. And if one of those points doesn't meet that criteria, it jumps down to another level below SAP. And I'll talk about that in a second. But they say here the justification for need, remote vision, right? Remote viewing, remote communication, right? And deregulation. Both materialization techniques to observe, communicate, retrieve data, and transfer matter across dimensional and space-time barriers will undoubtedly be of utmost interest, if not a top collection priority for adversarial intelligence security services. Countermeasures against such techniques would also be a collection priority. Put a full stop there. So who's the adversary that we need to employ such techniques against? Especially back in 2012. That's a serious question. But on top of that, they had mentioned those adversaries of being China and Russia, those countries to look out for. And Jimmy, I know that you're kind of addressing the document in certain segments word for word. Do you want to share the documents so that people know where you're reading? That's fine. I'm on page 21 right now. So if you want to jump to page 21, because going back to Richard's point right there, when Richard said full stop, he's exactly right. Because the next point, and just scroll down, it's the justification for need. That's where I'm at right there. Is this, B, recovered AAV technology exists in and is accessible only within an SAP construct. That's another full stop right there, Richard. Absolutely. Absolutely. Special access programs, I mean, I'm sure many listeners do know this, but I'm sure there's some who don't. Special access program is your primordial black budget program. In other words, it's a program that Congress pays for, but doesn't know what they're paying for, that we pay for, and we don't know what we're paying for. In other words, they are Not only is the operation classified, but generally speaking, their very existence is classified. It's black, in other words, you can't see it. And what we know in the United States government is that there are many, many, many special access programs. I don't think anybody knows how many, but in all likelihood, there's been some studies on this every once in a while. And every time someone has looked into it, they're like, We're overrun with them. The government has a tremendous number of these programs and they, again, they have limited to no oversight. And so if you've got a big, big secret, that's where you keep it. And plus the special access programs typically have huge interest or a connection with private contractors, not just DOD personnel. In fact, primarily contractors, not DOD personnel. Yeah, you can't audit. You can't trace the money. The budgeting and the spending, that's determined by whoever is receiving the funding. That's it. When you say no oversight, there is absolutely zero oversight. The GAO can't get involved. I think about five years ago, Tom DeLonge did a tweet. I wish I could find it. I'm sure someone can. Uh, but he, he stated pretty clearly. He said, look, if anyone who wants to get to the bottom of this coverup, he said, we need a legal revolution. And I think he was talking exactly about this. Like the whole structure of secrecy, it's beyond classified. It's essentially privatized and FOIA requests. You really have to wonder how effective they could possibly be with any of these saps. Um, I think. they've never been successful with special access. And Thomas Wilson addressed it so elegantly. And this next point here, retrieval and integration, this is also on the same page, Christina. Retrieval and integration of historical data from high-value personnel with knowledge of recovered AAV technology and present location of recovered material is accessible only within an SAP construct. Again, this is exactly what Thomas Wilson was talking about, wasn't it, Richard? Exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let me just get these last two points in and then we'll continue. Undue attention by other United States government or private sector entities not involved with the program or any international interest will directly or indirectly interfere with the daily program mission and perhaps threaten the overall success of the program. Due to a highly specialized nature of the program, overt acknowledgement of personnel involved in the program will lead to unnecessary security risk. In other words, SAP, total lockdown, total secrecy. There's no way any of this could get out. It represents the security directly of the United States. Also, let's just state a couple of obvious things here because it's easy to overlook the obvious. All this UAP, UFO technology is being militarized. It's all being militarized. It's all being turned into weapons. And we just take that for granted, by the way. I mean, we're just like, let's stop and think. We're dealing with the most incredible reality here. non-humans of highly advanced capabilities that are here on planet earth, obviously blanketing the earth sightings everywhere. So yes, that's a security concern. I'm not going to argue against that, but there's so much more. This is a genuine, deep, scientific, philosophical, existential issue. And yet all we ever hear is, is the military side of it, the national security side of it, which is completely locked down and being weaponized. And that I think is just a sad statement personally. So then we have, before we let you go and Richard, thank you for taking the time today. This is some serious, seriously breaking news. It's very fluid. And this broke yesterday. I called Richard last night. He's reviewing the document and, and we just wanted to make sure that we were standing out in front of the community and bringing this forward. So Richard, before we, I let you go, or before we say goodbye, I should say not I, we. I want to bring this up. On page 34, go to page 34, Christina, because we got an unredacted document until page 34. Is that 34? No, let's go to... It's page 34 has question number seven on it. Right there. Okay. Right there. Right there. Right there. Okay. So question six on page 34. Right there. You can see it. Question six is redacted. So we don't know. I find that very, very strange. Now, I looked at the context before and after that question. I have no idea what could have been there. That's interesting. That's the first redaction in the document. And then question seven, which is below, has the building owner's names redacted. Now, I... I'm going to say it's Bigelow, right? I'm going to say that that's Bigelow because there is a mention of what we can assume is Skinwalker Ranch with this comment. And you can see it right there, but the name is redacted. A 480-acre research property in Utah with a 15-year history of intensive anomalous activity is owned by Redacted. The property is under 24-7 armed guard. Now, Richard, when you looked at this, you've got an unredacted document. But then we get here to this page where a question arises. is redacted it's very interesting what was in that question that wasn't okay for public release it wasn't a name that was redacted it was the question that was redacted um it's a really good catch I'm going to go back and review those questions and see what logically might fit in there I haven't really thought about that yeah I i tried to get the flow christina what did you think The possibilities are obviously endless, but maybe one of them could be pertaining to maybe a different area. It could also be pertaining to a specific Kona Blue question on who needs to maybe verify the information. Because what's interesting about this report is that it was on the bandwagon. I mean, it was ready to be signed off to Kona. be a real project to really continue and do the research. But then it got dropped like a sack of hot potatoes. And the question is why? What's more interesting about this are all the factors that were included in this. So you have remote viewing, you have psychological tests as well, you have reverse engineering programs, you have research into technology, you have Bigelow involved in this, you have AATIP involved in this. And when you bring in all of those factors, yeah, I could definitely raise some red flags. But as Richard Dolan had mentioned a little bit earlier with SAPs, that there are so many that people just can't get a hold of how many there are. So even though this one might have failed, which... Anyone could easily say it's failed when in reality it's in action. But let's say that it flopped completely. There could be a handful of other projects doing the exact same thing, just merely under a different name. And so when we consider it from that angle... And ongoing, Christina. Exactly. So when we consider it from that angle, people might think, oh, man, this Kona Blue was BS, something to see here. There's still so much happening behind the scenes. I'm going to give my final take before you guys kick me out of here. What I think happened, I mean, with OSAP and AATIP, how did they get formed? You have Bigelow talking with Harry Reid and a few other folks. And And, you know, we hear what Lou Elizondo has to say about this. This is very consistent. What it looks like is an attempt by the NIDS center of gravity, Bigelow. Those people, Bigelow, Putoff, Green, Eric Davis, Colm Kelleher, and their allies have always wanted to get to the center of the labyrinth. That's always been their goal. They've all, they all know a lot They have always all known a lot. That's what NIDS was about in the 90s. And as NIDS morphed into BAS and this whole attempt to contract within the DOD, this, I believe, was an attempt by this group to get into the inner circle. You know, John Alexander did this kind of a thing back in the 1980s with his advanced theoretical physics group. It was another attempt to kind of get into that holy grail. And I'm just taking a guess, suspect that there are people who are within the Pentagon who are saying, oh no, no, no, no, not you. We have programs for this. but they were able to succeed enough to get OSAP through and to get AATIP through for a little while with minimal funding, but they were able to get it approved for a little while until it ran into enough enemies that it was killed. And this Kona Blue, I would be inclined to interpret as another attempt by this group to get back in, to keep it going under a different guy. And to your point, Richard, that if you go back to SRI and all the players here, Hal Puthoff and, of course, Kit Green and others, all had connections and were well-versed. with working with the CIA and other defense departments and intelligence agencies. And this was nothing new. They were always part of the mechanism and the machine that was operating. Now, so it wasn't like they were kids that never played in the sandbox. They knew about the bureaucracy and how this game is played. And the intelligence world is spooky. That's exactly what it is. Now, let me get to this, and then we'll let you go. This is page 58. You can go to the last page of the document. Page 58, this is the conclusion. It says, in November 2009, at the request of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, DTA completed a review of the program. The agency determined that, based on classification levels of current and projected deliverables, insufficient grounds existed to classify the program Invoke an ACCM, I'll get to that in a second, or establish a restricted SAP. It wasn't of that classification level to them. Now, what is an ACCM? It's Alternative Control Compulsory Measures. That's right. And so it's a level below a special access program. It's very close. It's very, very close. The ACCM, Alternative or Compensatory Control Measures. Okay. Are security measures used to safeguard classified intelligence or operations and support information when normal measures are insufficient to achieve strict need-to-know controls and where SAP controls are not required? So that's your fallback is your ACCM if you don't get SAP status. There's a lot of lack of control over those as well from at least when I studied this a number of years ago. Yes, yes. As well. So what's your general take, Richard? Do you think that the cone of blue was unnecessary because other programs were already in place, or you dropped the word consciousness and remote viewing and paranormal, and that scares everybody away? I have a feeling, I mean, this is not to malign any of the people involved. I mean, Robert Bigelow is a brilliant man, put off as a brilliant man, and is a friend of mine. I admire him. and a lot of these other folks they're amazing but I think they they were not welcome to the party that's what I suspect I think that um this type of program undoubtedly assuming exists in some form or in multiple forms, but just not them. I suspect that there's political machinations going on. There was some resistance to bringing in this group of people for whatever reason. And I suspect that the question that was totally redacted, I'm just guessing. I mean, this is, you can really se