Ross Coulthart on UFOs and Disclosure - Classics Remastered

Show Transcript

This remastered interview includes bonus content of additional questions and answers originally made available only to members of Cristina's Patreon members club. To get your access to new member-only content,follow the link in the description. Tonight, I am joined by Australia-based journalist and researcher, Ross Colthart, who authored the 2021 Best Seller in Plain sight, and who also produced the documentary called "The UFO Phenomenon," which has had millions of views since it went upon YouTube in September of this year. Ross, I really appreciate you being (00:47) with us here this evening. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you very much. It's a hell of a time in UFOlogy right now. Very, very interesting things happening in the Congress. It is. And there has been recent big news out of Australia came with your seven news report published on the 19th of this month stating that Australian military witnesses to UFOs are going to speak out. (01:13) In it, you gave several reports from military service or intelligence veterans, most if not all of which, when unreported to military commanders or if given, the reports were dismissed. In your article, you voiced your opinion that you suspect this is not because of some dark conspiracy of defense and/or intelligence agencies to suppress the existence of UAP. (01:37) And you asked the question, quote, "Could it be that most of them are as confused as we all are about what these objects might be? And is it easier to ignore or ridicule the mystery than to deal with it?" So my question is this, have you received any reports or claims that at any point, the objects being seen have been picked up on radar or monitored on sensitive equipment and subsequent data recorded and sent up the chain of command? Yes, yes I have. (02:12) I've spoken just in the last few days since the documentary that we reprieved went to where almost a week ago. I've been receiving quite a number of emails, messages from people either serving or formally in the military services, mainly in the Air Force, but also in the Navy, who tell me that a lot of the things that have been seen by pilots off the West Coast and the East Coast of the United States, objects like the TickTack, large, high-pig of pardon, large black triangular objects, pyramidal objects, they've been seen and indeed been passed up the chain by soldiers, (02:54) military people who've told their commanders. And there's also a mixture, some of them have also realised that it's not good for your career to report these things. And so they've quietly sort of agreed with their colleagues with whom they've seen these objects, not to report them. (03:10) So there's a combination of both, but what I do detect is as a huge amount of momentum, there's a senator here in Australia called Peter Wiesch Wilson. He's an ex-Serviceman himself, former officer trained at one of the top military academies here in Australia. (03:30) And he has colleagues, friends in the military, who are now contacting him, telling him very similar things that they have also seen extraordinary objects in the skies. I've personally spoken to members of Australia's Air Force, the Royal Australian Air Force, the RAAF, and a number of them have actually told me that they have reported to their command that they've had objects flying in tandem with the aircraft, clear metallic disc-shaped lenticular objects that are tracking the aircraft, and nothing ever happens. And I actually think, (04:09) I really do think we have a saying in my line of work, which is always assume a screw-up before a conspiracy. And I know a lot of us leap to the conclusion that maybe there is some dark conspiracy here that there's somebody going around twiddling the knobs and basically saying, you shall not report this stuff. (04:32) But could it be, and this is why I asked this question in my article, because a few people have suggested this to me, could it be as simple as the military, your military, our military, British, French, nobody really wants to admit in the senior command that they are perplexed by this phenomenon. We're meant to have an omnipotent national security structure, we're meant to be protected by our military. (04:56) It's their whole credo that they define themselves by that they're able to protect the population. What if it's as simple as they just don't like admitting that this phenomenon is real? Because they can't understand it. I do seriously think that's a real possibility. I do think that there are people in your national security, defense, aerospace, infrastructure who do know the real story, but there are very small number of people. (05:25) I think and I assume that a large percentage of the command of both of our countries, military and intelligence is basically oblivious to what's really going on. I think that ultimately what happens is they tell themselves, you know what, we don't understand this, it's making us feel uncomfortable. Let's just ignore it. You know, it sounds legit and yes, maybe admitting that would be seen as admitting that there is an inherent weakness where there shouldn't be in military circles. (05:57) Were you also told if those reports that have been passed up the chain just subsequently disappeared without any feedback to the military witnesses and how often does this seem to be occurring to the best of your knowledge? Okay, well, you've got the official position and you have the unofficial position. So in Senit estimates, which is a bit like a congressional oversight committee here in our parliament in Australia, about two weeks ago, the chief of our Air Force, Mil Hupfield, who's a good guy, he's a he's a top gun pilot, you know, very well respected fighter pilot. He flew a combat squadron (06:32) in the Middle East during the Gulf War, hugely respected guy, but he gave evidence to the parliament that he was oblivious. He was completely unaware of any UAP sightings that had been reported during his time in command and he was not aware, frankly, of any anomalous sightings or reports that had been passed up the chain. (07:01) And the thing that fascinates me about this is the Royal Australian Air Force and tell about the early 1970s was one of the principal agencies in the world taking this phenomenon very seriously indeed. And I think Mel is just part of the new generation that have basically inherited the status quo, where fundamentally across all militaries, since the closure of Project Blue Book, there's been this stigma, this taboo that's been attached to the UFO subject that has essentially made the whole subject matter radioactive. And I've spoken to military commanders, (07:36) squadron commanders, pilot pilots, some of our top aircraft in this country, and they speak to me confidentially. And they tell me that there are sightings all the time in our Air Force, which cannot be explained. I've spoken to people in our intelligence services in our military who are aware of what's being seen through the DSP, the Defence Support Program satellites and the National Reconnaissance Organization satellites that we monitor in conjunction with your country, the United States, (08:08) through what is probably your most sensitive military base outside of the continental USA, Pine Gap. And the telemetry data from those satellites has been done through this facility near Alice Springs near Luru Air's Rock in the middle of Australia. And then it's sent back to America and analyzed over there. But there are Australian personnel who are seeing the telemetry data. (08:32) And I can tell you, I know for a fact that there are regularly a non-nomalous objects that are being seen by these operators that are being recorded. I've spoken to people who are privy to the information sharing within the Five Eyes Alliance, that is the UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, and increasingly Japan as an unofficial partner. (09:00) Just sharing going on, information sharing going on between the Five Eyes partners of a non-nomalous and identified aerial phenomena. I've spoken to people who've seen this data. It's being recorded, but clearly what's happening, I think, is there's a bit of willful ignorance going on? And I don't think it's a conspiracy. (09:16) I really don't. Mel Hubfield, our chief of air staff, is a good guy. He's not covering something up, I don't think. I just think that our Air Force is less resourced than say the US Air Force, which has billions of dollars to hundreds of millions. And I think their priority is basically keeping the tyres on on the F18s and the F35s that we've got because we've paid such a monster for them. (09:39) And frankly, the idea of having UAP monitoring is something that's completely off the radar for give the pun. So do you think a new generation then, of people getting into the military and government circles in the US and Australia, maybe trying to push UAP transparency to the forefront more than any prior time? Yeah, I do. I mean, look at Dave Freyver and Alex D. (10:06) Trick and all of the other pilots, all the pilots who've come forward from the Nimitz incident. I mean, they took some encouraging because they were aware and very conscious of the stigma in the taboo that's attached to the subject of UAPs. I think one article I recall reading said that when Dave Freyver came back from his engagement with the TickTack, the deck crew on board the Nimitz were wearing tinfoil hats. (10:29) I mean, people still take the mickey out of people who report the phenomena. I know there's still a taboo here in Australia's military, but I mean, to give you an example, I contacted recently, I found in our National Archives the name of one of our Special Forces soldiers, a warrant officer, quite a senior non-commissioned officer from our Special Essets and incredibly the file recorded the name of this Special Forces soldier. (11:03) And he'd seen an object hovering over the Royal Australian Air Force Base called LearMonth, which is way up in Northwest Cape in Far Western Australia, very near to the Northwest Cape Harold E. Holt Naval Communication Station, which is a vitally important facility for both America and Australia, particularly for the US because it's where you send in the event of nuclear war very low frequency signals to your submarines underwater to communicate with them in the event of a nuclear confrontation. So it basically makes that whole section of Australia (11:37) and nuclear target. And so it's interesting to me that this area, which is clearly at the nexus of that connection between UFOs and nuclear weapons, it's a nuclear facility, if you like, based on our soil. (11:56) It fascinated me that I found in our National Archives a report by two former Special Air Service warrant officers, very senior men in the regiment. They're the equivalent of seals or delta force in your country. And I contacted this guy and he was absolutely surprised to hear from me that his name was in public archives because he'd been a very well respected elite soldier in our military, but he was chuffed thrilled that his name was there because he wanted to talk about what he'd seen. (12:29) And you've got an imminent parachute drop by one of our most elite regiments, I think about a hundred men were jumping out of the back of a C-130 over this history. And as to plane approaches, a gigantic sphere comes from the horizon at high speed tracking ground, very close to the ground. And this guy was so astonished by what he saw and then what happened because they had four digital radios to communicate with the C-130 back-ups on back-ups on back-ups. (12:57) Every single one of those radios failed. There was some kind of electromagnetic interference that stopped them from communicating with the parachute drop. As a result, the whole military exercise was impeded. And they were concerned enough about this to make a report to special operations command who then reported it to the defense Air Force Intelligence Group who presumably also passed it on to the Americans. (13:19) I mean, it was a very clear sighting of an anomalous solid spherical object that disrupted communications for one of our elite military regiments, clearly a national security concern and national security threat. And he was concerned about this. And what struck me was he's a gentleman in his 40s, he's now retired, but he was really keen for me to write this story because he said to me that there were a lot of his colleagues who'd served in special forces in that part of Australia, in this area of Northwest Cape, where they keep this particular military base very secure, (13:56) they're constantly practicing for how to stop bad guys coming up the beach and knocking out these towers that would be used to communicate with nuclear submarines. So it's a very important strategic facility right on the edge of the Indian Ocean where russkeys or Chinese could presumably send commandos ashore. So it's a military priority for us to protect it. (14:19) And he was astonished that his file was public, but he said, this is really important that you're chasing this because he said, I know a lot of military people who've served in our military forces. And they're all talking about this, but because of the stigma, because of the taboo, they don't come forward. (14:37) And that's starting to change. Courageous, good people like Dave Fraver, Alex Dietrichs, Louis Luzondo, Chris Mellon, are now coming forward and talking about what they know. And we should support them, frankly. I mean, I don't buy into this ephology nonsense that there's some dark conspiracy theory that means that we have to be intensely suspicious of Elizondo or Mellon's motives. (15:02) Bottom line is they're pushing for transparency, openness, UFO disclosure, like the rest of us. There is keen for military personnel to be encouraged to give evidence. And yes, there is a sea change happening. There is a ground swell happening on the ground. (15:24) And I'm terribly worried that what we're seeing at this very moment in the Congress is an attempt by the Pentagon to head off the amendments that have been suggested by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, the Democrat Senator from New York, who's pushing basically for far tighter transparency rules to be imposed on the Pentagon. (15:45) And everybody listening to this at this very moment needs to get on their blower and bring their congressman, send emails, letters to their congressman, their senator, and lobby for the Gillibrand amendments to be included in the defense appropriations legislation. (16:02) Because frankly, if we don't, we're going to be spending another 50, 75 years sitting on our bottoms waiting for something interesting to happen in ephology, waiting for the displosures to be made. Because there are, there are very cynical religious zealots inside the Pentagon who are trying to stop you, the public, from finding an out about what the United States really knows about this phenomenon. (16:28) And there is a new generation, your generation that is pushing hard and laudably so for displosures to come. And it's always difficult for me as a journal, because essentially I'm a journalist, I'm not an activist. But I can see, I know I'm talking to people inside the Congress, inside the Pentagon, inside intelligence and defense. (16:46) And they're telling me that this is a critical moment. This is a juncture, an absolute paradigm position point in whether or not the American people, the rest of the world, get to know what the Pentagon knows about UAPs. You can't sit on your hands, everyone needs to get out there. And I know it's just before Thanksgiving, which is why the Defense Department has done this. (17:13) You're all hoping you'll just go away on holiday, have a nice sleepy weekend, forget about those pesky amendments that the good senators putting before the Congress. When in fact, this is the moment, you need to gird your loins and write letters to your congressman and get in there and start lobbying. Because I detect, I'm really heartened, my daughters, I've got two daughters and I love the way they engage with the subject matter. (17:37) They're not stigmatized by the taboo that has been deliberately attached to the subject matter by quite a deliberate disinformation campaign by the Pentagon and by the CIA. People don't realize that the reason why we giggle or smirk slightly when we're told about UFOs is because there was a deliberate decision made in the 1950s that it was time to shut down public scrutiny of the phenomena because it was embarrassing, frankly. And I suspect it's got a lot to do with the fact that the United States knows (18:12) a hell of a lot more about the subject matter than it's letting on. Yes, you're so right. And now more so than never. And I think it's so important, like you said, to get in touch with your representatives and demand action. And we have Louis Luzando and all those that you had mentioned, they are all very inspiring and doing so much for this movement, seeking the truth and accountability. (18:44) You mentioned nuclear facilities and UFOs being observed near them. And that's something that has a global history, many cases including the British RAF, Bentwater's case, and then the Maelstrom facility in the USA. Have you heard of any UFOs have being observed near the Pine Gap facility there? Yes, yes I have. Look, I commend to anyone watching this that they should read the definitive book on this subject matter by a wonderful bloke called Robert Hastings. (19:18) Bob Hastings lives in the middle of nowhere, way, way out in your Midwest, and he's just an absolute hero in my book because he has methodically traced since he was first exposed to the subject matter as a teenage boy, the connection, the irrefutable connection between UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomena, these anomalous objects in our skies, and nuclear weapons facilities, nuclear facilities of different kinds. (19:44) And that doesn't just mean nuclear weapons, it also means facilities that are using nuclear power, or facilities like the one in Northwest Cape in Australia, the Harold E. Holt Naval Communications Station, which is probably one of your more vital communication stations for getting signals out to your nuclear attack submarines in the event of God forbid nuclear war. (20:10) And yes, in Australia there is a very, very close link between facilities that we believe are very closely linked to your nuclear deterrence, Pine Gap, the Harold E. Holt Naval Communications Station, and other bases that are possibly too sensitive to mention, that essentially are irretrievably linked into ensuring that in the event of nuclear war there is a deterrence against either Soviet or Chinese aggression or Russian or Chinese aggression. (20:35) And we are aware of it, but I don't think people acknowledge it enough. I think that there is this kind of cognitive dissonance. When I spoke to Robert Hastings who wrote his fantastic book, UFOs and MOOCs, Rob explains to me something that I've never really understood before. He, in a magnificent piece of investigative journalism, he literally went round all of the reunion meetings of people who had served in intercontinental ballistic missile bankers all over the United States. And he just chatted to people, got to know them, made links with people, and slowly but (21:18) surely he realized it wasn't just the Maulmstrom, the Maulmstrom incident in the 1970s. Every single ICBM base, every single silo with a nuclear missile in it, had been visited by the phenomenon, that there were people who were prepared to testify to anomalous sightings over every single nuclear facility in the United States. (21:49) And that includes sensitive bases like your loss alamost nuclear weapons laboratory, the Nevada Test Range site, one of the things that really astonished me when I started going through your archives and your country's national archives, was that there's very solid records by scientists, the people who were at the loss alamost tests of nuclear weapons in the very early days in the 1940s, almost immediately that we started testing nuclear weapons, both in your country and in ours and in Australia. (22:21) It's not commonly known that Australia was one of the biggest nuclear test sites for the British at a place called Mara Linger in the South Australian desert. But every single time there were nuclear weapons tests in either of those countries, there were sightings of anomalous objects. And here in Australia, I was just amazed because there's essentially an untold history of South Australia, the some of the most remote desert, some of the most remote and empty landscape in the world, sadly, there were nomadic Aboriginal people still trekking that land in the days when they were doing these (22:57) tests. And it turns out that a lot of them were exposed to radiation. And this came out in a special commission, a Royal Commission of Inquiry by the British government and the Australian government that took place about 20 years ago. (23:15) It's quite scandalous, but in the course of the revelations that came out of that inquiry, there were astonishing admissions made that frequently during nuclear tests there were anomalous objects witnessed by military personnel, numerous military personnel, on radar, tracked on radar, chased by fighter jets, witnessed by commanding officers, put up in reports and sent up the military command, often cc'd to your services over in the United States, and all too often, nothing came of it. (23:50) And one of the heroes of this story, one of the things that amuses me when we have the chief of our enforcement Australia saying, this is not an issue, UAPs don't really feature on my radar is that back in the 1970s, one of the head scientists in the defence science technology organisation in Australia, one of our chief defence scientists, a guy called Harry Turner, he had been a physicist at Mara Linger, and fortunately when he was a young 20-something physicist, he'd been tasked to investigate some of these weird sightings of anomalous phenomena, and he realised and spoke candidly to colleagues of mine here in Australia, (24:30) he realised it was real, and he was perplexed that the defence department, both of Australia and of the US seemed determined to sweep this matter under the carpet, and so there's a magnificent report, which has now been declassified, which I had the pleasure of reporting in my book, which basically goes in detail into how Harry was pushing at the highest levels of our Air Force, to try and force systematic investigation into the phenomenon, and he was repeatedly rebuffed, sadly, he was essentially (25:03) shut down, but what he basically discloses in the now declassified report is that he had contacts in the United States, working both in defence, private aerospace, and intelligence with whom he was liaising as one of the top scientists here in Australia, and he was briefed quite adamantly that the United States had allegedly recovered exotic technology, craft vehicles. (25:33) He purported that the Roswell crash was real, and it's quite astonishing to read this in a defence department archive document from an official statement, an official report written by a very well-breed Australian scientist who was talking to your well-breed Australian American scientists, and he was basically saying, there is a conspiracy, there is a cover-up, there is something being sat on by the American government that it doesn't want the public to know, and it's outrageous, it should be reported, he was encouraging (26:04) the Australian Air Force to take a different position from the Americans, but sadly, and it still seems to be the case 50 years later, the Australian Air Force followed the way of the American Air Force, which has been, as you know, principally at the forefront of trying to shut down public scrutiny of whatever it is the United States government knows about this phenomenon, because Christina, I say this as a mainstream media journalist, I say this as I hope one of my countries more well-respected investigative journalists, we are now in a position with the subject matter of UAPs that we can no longer (26:43) dismiss it as frickery or nonsense, or treat it with the taboo or stigma that it's long been treated with. This is a subject matter that demands serious investigation, and frankly, I'm appalled that the New York Times and the BBC and other media organisations have greeted the Pentagon's announcement today of the ridiculously acronymed AOMSG new UFO transparency group that the Pentagon supposedly set up. They've treated it with such glibic symptoms when in fact what it is is a blatant attempt (27:22) to shut down the public knowing any more about UAPs than the Pentagon wants you to know. You know, basically there is a history here, and this is the thing that fascinated me. There is a factual counterfactual history going back 50, 60, 70 years. People don't realise that in the 1940s and the 1950s, some of the people leading the charge for America's military to be more open and candid about what it knew and what technology it was in possession of were people from the American military, senior generals, a senior naval officer, Admiral Roscoe Hillencoder, the former founding director (28:07) of the Central Intelligence Agency. These were people who because of their knowledge from within side the United States military industrial complex, they knew the US was sitting on information. And what the current generation of people don't realise who treat this subject matter with disdain and ridicule and scorn, what they don't realise is that they've been manipulated, and this was a turning point for me. It was a paradigm shift for me as an investigative journalist. (28:39) I realised when I looked at the documentation, there was a deliberate decision made by the CIA, essentially after the Robertson panel and the Condon inquiry, to shut down public interest in UFOs. And they did this in the most efficacious way possible, with ridicule. They told the public it's all nonsense. (29:02) Get on with your lives and just ignore this phenomenon. It's just perfectly explainable benign, pro-seic with a phenomena, misidentify the aircraft. It's nothing to worry about. Go away and get on with your lives and let us do what we're doing behind the scenes. (29:20) That's essentially what's been going on since about 1970, since the shutdown of Project Blue Book, which was, let's be honest, a blatant whitewash to shut down public inquiry. Even Jay Allen Heineck, who was originally on Project Blue Book, went on to subsequently admit that. (29:44) And what there's a great saying, people who ignore their history are condemned to repeat it. And this is why I wouldn't know it, there's critical juncture, because if we ignore our history, if we ignore the fact that we've been manipulated before, it's going to happen again. Without a doubt. And with all of that, it's so crazy to think of that. (30:04) We've just been going in this loop for decades. But how can that not be a cause for concern or further investigation from the public? Again, why would the government want to acknowledge the UAP secret to the public anyways? I feel like it's admitting confusion and perceived weakness. But I definitely think the people can handle that truth. And to be honest, I think we can deal with it. (30:32) And maybe even find a new found identity together to join hands, even with official departments to bring more understanding of this mystery. And the book you mentioned about UFOs and nukes, I will definitely check that out. So, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think we need to look at the reasons why government might be sitting on this secret. And it's funny, I wrestle with this. (31:00) I'm still working it through in my head because after talking to people on the inside, I'm very, very sure that there are people, a small number of people in your military and in your intelligence services, who are fully briefed into what some people have used domestically referred to to me as, quote, the program. (31:29) And if you believe, and I emphasize, if you believe what my sources say, they tell me that there has been since the mid-1940s, an active program underway to try to re-engineer, to back engineer exotic recovered, non-human technologies. Now, I know that's a big call, and I know a lot of people watching this might go, oh, that's just rubbish, you know, whatever evidence is there for that. (31:55) But I do think there is a strong possibility based on statements made by, for example, Louis Lazon, who the former head of the Pentagon's UAP investigation program, where he's acknowledged that the US is in possession of recovered exotic technologies that are currently being investigated. You've got people like Dr Eric Davis, who's now a very well-respected scientist, astrophysicist working with the aerospace corporation, a federally funded corporation. (32:19) He has spoken a couple of years ago quite openly about the fact that he believes that he's been briefed into the fact that the United States is in possession of recovered craft vehicles. Now, let's assume, just for the benefit of this conversation, that that's the case. If I was the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, or maybe the head of the private aerospace company that I suspect has got this sitting in their basement, I don't believe it's in the possession of the US military any longer. I believe there's been a sanitization operation done. (32:54) I think there's been a deliberate effort by elements of the military and the intelligence services to put whatever this technology is, outside of the scrutiny of oversight agencies like the Congress, oversight agencies like the Inspector General of Defense and Intelligence. And I think that's criminal. And this is the problem. (33:18) I do believe that there is a strong probability that people have committed serious crimes to conceal what America knows about the phenomenon. And it's a bit cool, I know. But I do believe that there are generals, admins, probably retired, who will one day be called to before Congress and asked to account for why they colluded and conspired to lie to the American public. A bit cool, huh? I think it's true, though. I really do. (33:50) I think that there has been an active decision made by very senior military and intelligence personnel, out of utter arrogance, hubris, to conceal something from the American public. And they might have convinced themselves that they were doing it for the best possible motives during the Cold War. (34:14) I think, yes, during the Cold War, during the dark days when, frankly, both of our countries were living with the ever-present knowledge that nuclear amygaden was a strong possibility. I could understand why it might have been important for recovered technology to be kept secret from the world, whilst it was being developed in the black. But my sources tell me that there's been an enormous problem that this technology, whatever it is, is so advanced. (34:37) It's so far beyond human understanding that the only way that it can ever be definitively cracked is with a collaborative human effort on the scale of the Manhattan Project. And that involves collaborative scientific investigation. It involves the sharing of knowledge, probably across countries. Now, I'm told that there is already an active program attempting to investigate and back engineer these technologies. (35:10) The closest we've come to any kind of recent public acknowledgment of this was the slightly weird crata, the cooperative research agreement that was done between Tom the Longs to the Star's Academy and the Defence Department, the US Army, when it was agreed that certain alleged metamaterials would be investigated by the US Army's research laboratories. (35:30) But I'm told that the investigations are much more profound that for years there's been an active investigation going on and to recover technologies. We've actually had now officials on the record. And this is so frustrating because a lot of mainstream media, when they actually talk to me, I'm getting a lot of phone calls from journal friends in major newspaper groups and television stations, all around the world who've read my book. And they're saying, "How can you be so sure about this?" And I've said to them, (35:59) don't talk to your own sources because it's not too hard to push aside the veil and find people inside the Pentagon, the Defence and Intelligence Infrastructure who are prepared to talk about this privately. They're terrified about speaking publicly because it does involve a, you know, questionable incursion on their security oath. (36:25) But the reality is that privately now for quite some years there's been an acknowledgement emanating from key sections of the Pentagon and intelligence services that yes, the United States is in position of technology that it's trying to back engineer. And the problem for why the public's not being told this, I think the key issue is they've been lied to. (36:52) So many lies have been told to cover this up for what I see is, you know, people telling themselves that they were doing it for noble reasons. It was noble cause corruption, if you like. They basically decided, like, cops do to plant evidence on a crook. They decided that the best thing to do would be to purge themselves before Senate Intelligence committees and congressional oversight committees and basically lie. (37:16) And indeed, the president's science advisor in 2011 under Barack Obama put out a press release officially on behalf of the president, officially denying any knowledge of alien visitations or ET visitations to this planet or indeed have any recovered technologies. Now surely we are now in a position where even on the public record, the UAP Task Force report to Congress in June this year raises serious questions about the credibility of that denial that was made by the Obama White House because this seems to be an implicit acknowledgement in the UAP Task Force report that it wasn't Russian, it wasn't Chinese and it certainly ain't yours. It's not American, (37:57) certainly Australia's. And the bottom line is if it's not any of those three most powerful countries in the world, it's very unlikely to be any others. It's very unlikely to be a private aerospace initiative. So something, someone is operating hypersonic incredibly well-propulsioned anti-grinetic technology in our skies, oceans and orbit and we don't know what they are. (38:23) The UAP Task Force, when it made its report to the Congress in June 25th this year, what people have missed, and it so frustrates me because mainstream news media that I'm a part of should really be following the subject matter now as a daily round, as a subject of incredible importance, just like they cover health, education or national security. (38:50) It's time they had UAP correspondence, they really should because the admissions that are now being made by the Pentagon, by the senior levels of government are breathtaking. We are on the cusp of a completely new paradigm in public understanding of the phenomenon. The UAP Task Force report to the Congress essentially admitted that there are hypersonic vehicles operating in our atmosphere and we know also they're operating underwater and they're also operating in orbit that cannot be explained proziically, they cannot be explained by any known terrestrial human technology. The implication that (39:33) one is led to by an official Pentagon report to the Congress is that one plausible explanation, possibility for whatever this phenomenon is is that it is non-human, but some intelligence of some kind is operating technology in our skies, oceans and orbit within punity. We're incapable of intercepting it, but our sensors are detecting it. (40:04) Now countless times, several officials with inside knowledge, people like Luan Ozzondo, Christopher Mellon, and increasingly people who've been briefed within the Congress, Senators Marco Rubio, is it Dennis Warner? I've forgotten his first name, I apologise, but certain key congressmen and Senators have basically admitted that they have been briefed and that they are alarmed by what they are being told, that there is clearly a technology that is unknown to humanity operating here on this planet. Now I don't know why mainstream media (40:43) doesn't immediately jump on the bandwagon and start rattling the cage because we really are now at a crucial juncture. This is it. The Pentagon at this very moment is trying to shut down a attempt by Senator Kerst and Gillibrand to broaden the transparency and accountability rules. At the moment the Pentagon's proposed UFO office would only investigate the phenomenon in critical areas, critical airspace of national security importance, air force bases, air force research sites, that kind of area. When in fact we know that the phenomenon is increasingly (41:27) being witnessed in areas that are outside of those areas. And so what Senator Gillibrand's amendment seeks to do is to broaden the investigations and to require reporting on that phenomena to the Congress, including in an unclassified form. That's phenomenally important because essentially for the last 50 to 70 years the public has been kept in the dark above phenomena that are military in Australia, the British military, the French military, the Russian military. (41:58) I've spoken to all of these different militaries and yours, the American military. They've secretly been investigating this phenomenon all along and they've admitted privately to me they cannot explain it. I suggest to people that they go and read for example the UK Ministry of Defence's Condign Report, C-O-N-D-I-G-N, it's available online, it's a five volume report and essentially it leads the reader to the retrievable conclusion that the phenomenon is real, that it is incapable of terrestrial explanation and that there have been some incredibly dangerous situations involving (42:38) loss of aircraft, loss of life where military personnel's lives have been lost including in Russia. And it's never been adequately explained. And what I find perplexing is that we're now in a position where we can no longer deny the reality of this phenomena, but we have major newspaper groups like the New York Times, glibly reporting without proper analysis, the announcement by the Pentagon of the A-O-I-M-S-G, which is their new UFO office, which is essentially an attempt to shut down public (43:17) scrutiny and transparency of the UAP issue. So people should be listening to the Louis Lazon knows and the Christopher Millens, people who've made the courageous decision to step back from their roles in national security and to speak publicly about the fact that they do believe there is a cover-up going on. If we don't do this, we're going to be in the dark for the next 50 to 60 to 75 years. (43:40) I would be surprised if the mainstream just does what it's told by the government. Look, to be honest with you, I'm having worked in a major newspaper group and covered national security issues. What people ignore is that journalists are only ever as good as their sources. I mean, I've sought and received briefings on different national security issues from defense officials in my country and in your country. (44:13) I was involved in it very early days in my career in breaking the fact of the existence of what's called the echelon communication surveillance system, which is now acknowledged as the spying, the communication spying that's done by the national security agency, Australian signals directorate, the British GCHQ and different other organisations in Canada and New Zealand. (44:40) It took a lot of pushing to get officials to begrudgingly admit the fact that this was a reality, but ultimately they were led to the understanding that we weren't going to compromise national security. None of us as journalists want to do anything that compromises the efficacy of our military. If there are good sound military reasons for why the UAP issue can't be discussed publicly, then I'd invite it privately, numerous senior military officials to tell me what they are. They can't. There isn't one. I can appreciate that during the dark days of the Cold War, (45:12) it may have been necessary for strategic reasons to keep secret from the Soviets or the Chinese or any other Eastern block countries, the fact that the United States was in possession of recovered technology. But what my understanding is is that in the early days of the end of the Cold War, at least as it was then back in 1989, 1990, there was a high degree of openness between the former Soviet Union and the American government. (45:40) And admissions were made by the Russians that they'd been studying this phenomenon for some time. And my good friend and colleague George Napp did some phenomenally good work in going to the Soviet Union and obtaining documents that showed that the Russians were as perplexed about the phenomenon as we all are. And I'm told that for a brief period before things got cold again, there was a collaboration going on between the Americans and the Soviets into what the phenomenon was. And it's interesting now because my own sources in America tell me that (46:10) there's now a grave concern that the Russians and indeed the Chinese are rushing to try to back engineer or develop an understanding of the technology as they understand it that has been recovered. Because essentially whoever gets to control the new propulsion systems represented by the potential of anti-privatex or the potential of free energy systems, zero point energy. (46:38) If these things exist, they are a completely new paradigm for whichever country controls them. And so the tragedy is that we're now lurching into a new Cold War where superpowers are basically competing with each other to try and crack these technologies. And the public aren't being told. (46:56) And that's actually quite dangerous. Imagine this, Christina. Imagine if out of the Cold War in 1989 the Soviet Union and America had developed an understanding that the technologies represented by this retrieved technology could be harnessed and developed for all of our countries for the entire planet. Imagine how much more progressed we would be now. Mars would probably have been a pushover. (47:25) I mean let's assume that these technologies exist. I suspect they do. I mean I've spoken to people who've told me and I haven't been able to confirm it that the United States has made substantial breakthroughs in anti-privatex. But that all of this is being developed in the black. (47:43) I just don't know what to think, but the tragedy would be if as a result of super power confrontations these technologies were being withheld from the rest of the planet. Well I keep saying I believe disclosure will eventually come from the public, from the people. So talking about security keeping or talking about secretly keeping an eye on what's going on over the years it has been repeatedly speculated that different nations have specialized covert agencies that do keep track of UAP related events, B-Day sightings or sightings in relations to cattle mutilations or sightings at sea of USOs in the water. In your (48:24) research, even though there may be several layers of government or military departments that don't appear interested in the UAP mystery, have you come across anything that led you to believe that there is a very secret agency that's keeping tabs on things there in Australia or as a part of national security monitoring? I certainly don't think there is any government agency. (48:50) I've spoken to people who've been at a ministerial level in our government and the political side of the the parliament basically running the defence department and intelligence services. I've spoken to senior bureaucrats in our intelligence services and our defence agencies and I'm unpissuated to the view that there is not ongoing monitoring of UAPs. (49:13) They bought in in the 1970s, they bought into the paradigm that this is all to be ridiculed and stigmatised. So the people who were 20 in 1970 and are sort of coming to the end of their careers and their retired old duffers with their feet up on their lunges and they're telling me privately that as far as they know it was never being investigated since the 1970s by anybody in our government. (49:41) But that's not to say that there isn't what I believe is the case. I do believe that the technology that is in position of the United States has been deliberately divested to private aerospace. I know this is a controversial allegation but I think that there's been a deliberate attempt by certain sections of your military and intelligence services to avoid accountability and transparency. And this is what they're worried about. They've actually committed crimes. (50:09) They've avoided admitting to oversight committees of the US Congress that there is technology that has been quietly hived off into private aerospace companies. And I've been told by people in have to be careful here. Let me just say I'm aware of claims that there is a group of ex-military who go around the world investigating the phenomena. (50:46) And my understanding is they're not paid by any government. They're paid by a private aerospace company based out of Long Beach, California. Spoken to former military personnel who claimed to have been part of that body, a number of them are people who've worked for our defence signals directorate. Was it as it was then known or other intelligence or military services in our country? But I'm told there is a collaborative effort to investigate the phenomenon and to retrieve any physical samples. (51:17) And this has been going on for some time. But I can't do any better than that. It's it is a great saying one of your great Spomasters, highly controversial figure called Jesus James Angleton, one of the senior executives of your central intelligence agency. When he was talking about the vexed issue of trying to root out the people who were traitors in our midst, the people who penetrated US intelligence at the highest levels. (51:48) He talked about the wilderness of mirrors inside the US intelligence establishment. And indeed in many ways what we're searching for and investigating at the moment, it's a bit like rich in inside a dark room and trying to grasp whatever is in there. And you hand gets around something and you develop an understanding on what that is by feeling it and feeling around it. But you never quite get an overall global sense of what this is. (52:10) That's where we're at at the moment. It has been a very, very deliberate attempt to disinform. And it's funny, I know I say the same thing over and over again, but I really am. I'm quite shocked at the way that the files that have now been declassified by your defense and intelligence community make it very, very clear that in the 1970s, especially after the end of Brin Blue book, but progressively through the 50s and the 60s, it was a very deliberate effort made by key officials in your government to shut down and neutralise (52:43) public interest in the phenomenon. And it's been inaudibly successful. And now we're at a turning point where essentially your military has been dragged kicking and screaming to the admission by the Congress that the phenomenon is real because of a few brave military personnel who've had the courage to speak out about what they saw. And it's now developing a momentum of its own. (53:07) And I think the Pentagon's getting nervous. What I'm told is that there are, indeed, incredible as it may sound, religious zealots inside your military establishment who are trying to shut this down because they find the whole thing offensive to their religious beliefs. Their deep evangelical Christians at high levels in the intelligence services and particularly the US Air Force. (53:32) And they're just morally offended by the idea that there might be a non-human explanation for the phenomenon. So what do they do? They stick their heads in this and they lie to the American public about it. And frankly, they'll keep online unless you good people out there start shaking the cage, rattling the cage and demanding information because you can. (53:56) We're at such an important time here where all of a sudden the Congress has a proposition before it where essentially the Congress would require UAP transparency. It would require reports every year, I think every six months. Detailing what the United States government knows about the UAP issue. Detailing what the United States government knows about incredibly references to alien life. (54:28) Non-human biological entities recovered craft. These recommendations by Senator Gillibrand are absolutely fundamentally important to our understanding, our potential understanding, as humanity of what is probably one of the most monumental secrets that's ever been kept. It is the biggest story of our time. I cannot overstate this and I don't care for a moment what the skeptics and debunkers say. (54:58) The level of proof is now far beyond a criminal burden of proof. Beyond reasonable doubt, there is something that the United States is sitting on that it doesn't want you to know. And key officials in your Air Force and your intelligence services are desperately trying to stop you from finding out about it. (55:18) Now you can go on for the rest of your life in the sleepy days and just let the world manipulate itself around you or you can find out what's really going on. Because I've spoken to some of these people. I've spoken to some of these insiders. I know what's coming. There's a lot of it I can't talk about. (55:37) But some of the revelations are breathtaking. And I think people just need to realise they have the power to push, they have the power to force change. We are at an absolutely monumental moment in political history in the United States where the Congress is deciding once and for all, will the public ever know? And that's just so fascinating. We want to know. (56:09) So changing direction a bit for my last question, Australia is a vast continent and has about 40% of the land mass classified as uninhabitable. 20% of that being desert and 80% of the population staying in urban areas. The remaining population are mostly made up of the Aboriginal peoples living in very remote places. Have you ever received or looked into reports of UAP being cited in the Australian Outback by Indigenous people there? Or would they even report their sightings? I can tell you as recently as last week I was talking to a friend who's an anthropologist who was telling me that the Aboriginal community that he was with (56:53) way, way out in Western Australia's desert were telling him about the objects that they'd seen. It's a long historical part of Aboriginal dream time stories, the oral history, that there are things called Minmin lights, that the European settlers called Minmin lights, that the Aboriginal people had different names for and their different dialects that have been seen for years by the Aboriginal people and they associate them with spirits with spirits of their ancestors. And bottom line is (57:24) it's very much part of the oral history of Aboriginal Australia that there has been a phenomena that cannot be explained that is frequently witnessed, not just by Aboriginal people in our Outback, in our remote country for many hundreds of years. I've spoken to a beautiful man, he's not a pastor way but his name was affectionately known as Bluebob. (57:52) Nobody knew his real name but he was a very, very aristocratic well respected Aboriginal elder who lived in the Gulf of Carpentry area, way up in the north of Australia, mainly in North Queensland. And there was a mining company that I was doing a story with and we were flying around with this mining company investigating their efforts to preserve sacred sites, Aboriginal sacred sites. (58:22) And one of the ways that they figured out where these sacred sites were was they'd done their own mapping with specialized aircraft that could look for magnetic imagery that showed mineral deposits below the ground. And a lot of those sites were invisible to the eye, unless you knew where to look. And they took me up in a helicopter with Bluebob, this lovely Aboriginal elder and they said look we're just going to turn the GPS off and we're going to show you what he can do. (58:58) And Bluebob navigated the helicopter without the use of any maps just by following the landscape telling the pilot where to fly. He navigated the helicopter to the great frustration of the geologist in the back of the chopper with me who was pulling his hair up because literally every time they found say another load of uranium or another load of book site, you'd look down and you couldn't really see anything down below you but he was going down there, down there. (59:26) And you'd realize that he had an intuitive understanding of the landscape, a connection with the landscape that I frankly would never ever be able to have on comprehend. And they'd recognised as a, you know, 21st century mining company that this elder, this Aboriginal elder, was plugged into something that they couldn't explain. (59:44) But hilariously in the course of an afternoon we literally flew over every single site that he deemed a sacred site that was part of their dreamtime stories that also turned out to be some of the more principally important mineral deposits that this mining company wanted to mine. And which quite rightly, they didn't mine as a consequence of Blue Bob's concerns. (1:00:07) And it's people like that with whom I've engaged and for whom I have an enormous respect, who tell me that we have no understanding of what they essentially refer to as spirit people. It's part of Aboriginal mythology that Aboriginal people were visited by the one-genre people. And I was privileged once to travel way, way up in the Kimberley part of Australia in North Western Australia. (1:00:34) And there are these cave paintings on the walls of these ghostly-looking figures with huge heads. And what looked like Eric Vondianic and called them space helmets. But the Aboriginal people basically call them the one-genre people. And they were the spirit people that came down from the sky and engaged with Aboriginal people tens of thousands of years ago. And this is an oral history that goes back 40, 50,000 years. (1:00:58) They've known something for tens of thousands of years that you and I are only now starting to comprehend. Ross, this has been incredible. Your knowledge, your research and your voice in all of this is so outstanding and so needed globally. I have so many more questions for you and I wish I had a longer format for this show so we could talk more. (1:01:23) But hopefully again in the near future together, we can have another show and dive even deeper into the mystery. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time. Where can viewers and listeners find you online? I'm probably the best place to find me is through my book site, which is www.inplanesite. hyphenbook.com. (1:01:51) And there you'll find all the connections to my book, my documentaries, and also my Twitter feed at Rosculta@ROWSCOULTHAT. I'm also www.rosculta.com. But my book in plain sight is there for anyone to read and there's also a YouTube documentary called The UFO for Nominon, which is now I'm glad to say being seen by about 8 million people internationally. (1:02:18) So I'm very honored that so many people have taken an interest in my work and I think you and your audience for engaging with me. Again, thank you so much. Peace wishes. And now, bonus content of questions and answers previously only available to Patreon club members. (1:02:41) To get your access to new member only content, follow the link in the description. Hello and welcome all my Patreon supporters. Here we are with Mr. Ross Colhartt and let's just jump right into it. From reading your book in plain sight, seeing your documentary and a few interviews where you have spoken about witnesses that I've seen multiple different shaped craft. (1:03:05) It's clear that there is a definite variation in the shape, size, and flight characteristics of objects being seen. And so based on your research and conversations with witnesses, have you reached any conclusions in regards to the possibility of there being more than one type of intelligence piloting the objects or what in your opinion, or what's your opinion on that possibility? Look, to be honest with you, Christina, I'm as vexed as you all are by the explanation. What I can tell you is the phenomena, you know, the epidemiological phenomena, if you (1:03:39) like, that basically it is quite clear that there is different shaped objects that have been seen by people in the skies. I'm not sure, even now, that we should assume that it's extraterrestrial, that it's literally little green men from another planet that's coming to our planet from another planet. I'm not sure I buy that. I'm a keen reader of thought leaders like Jacques fillet, Dr. (1:04:07) Jacques fillet, who, for example, has speculated quite openly that he thinks the extraterrestrial hypothesis is not enough to be able to explain the phenomena. And that he hopes, ironically, that are more interesting explanations, suffices. (1:04:31) I'm fascinated by the fact that people like John Keel, the British writer, and investigator, he often talked about the fact that he felt that the idea that this was just aliens wasn't, it was not an explanation. It couldn't possibly explain. And he talked about the possibility that if you look at the way these objects have manifested themselves through history, could it be that at the heart of all of this is a technology, an intelligence that is capable of manipulating human perception? I know this is a confronting idea, but, and I'm still working it through it myself, but I'm struck by the fact that if you've read my book, you'll see I spend a (1:05:13) lot of time talking about slide nine, which is an astonishing slide, a PowerPoint slide that was part of a briefing given to a very senior defense official by members of the UFO investigation program. And slide nine referred to the psychotronic capabilities of the phenomenon, the fact that it seems to be capable of manipulating human perception and consciousness. (1:05:45) And John Keel made the point that if you go back through history and look at what people were describing tens of thousands of years ago, often they describe them in the context of things that they could relate to, balls of fire, some of the early ones, orbs, glowing orbs, wheels spinning within wheels. And then later on, for example, in the 19th century, when there was those weird floating airship sightings, ships floating above people, numerous sightings were made of these across the American Midwest in the 19th century. And then into our century, at the beginning of this century, you had rockets, (1:06:29) is it possible that what we're seeing here is a technology or an intelligence that's capable of manifesting itself to human beings in different ways? And so when we see black triangles, maybe it's trying to emulate, say, the conventional stealth aircraft of our era, when we increasingly see the more anomalous objects that have manifested themselves to pilots, for example, off the West coast of America, the Tic-Tac-shaped object, could that be the newest manifestation of how the phenomenon wants to express itself to us? I don't know necessarily that (1:07:07) we can accept automatically that this is a physical phenomena, that is essentially a fixed piece of technology. And I'm still working my way through that, but increasingly, I'm struck by the fact that so many of the people who I talk to, who claim knowledge of the subject matter, tell me that we can't ignore, that we have to look at the consciousness aspect, the psychotronic aspects, the capacity of whatever this phenomenon is, to manipulate human perception and consciousness. Are we seeing something interdimensional that's manifesting itself to us (1:07:44) or be it in a physical way, in a way that is manipulating our consciousness and indeed our physical senses in the way that we perceive it? I appreciate that's possibly a bit too much for everybody's heads at this time of the day, but I've thrown it out there for your edification. And you mentioned black triangles, which in your book plain sight, you spend the entire chapter eight talking about it. (1:08:12) And there's a lot of back and forth where some people think that they are an alien craft, while others think they're a highly secret military aviation technology, from your research, which way do you tend to lean in your opinion of what they are? I suspect it's a bit of both. I suspect that the United States is developing incredible technologies in the black. (1:08:37) Or let me put it this way, I sure hope you are if there's one country in the world, one country that isn't an authoritarian dictatorship yet. It's the United States. You know, you're still the last gasp of democracy on this planet that's a super power. Sadly, Russia and China have both slid into authoritarian dictatorship. (1:08:55) It's quite frightening and I dream the possibilities for the world if either of them come to master the technologies we're talking about. So I sincerely hope that if there is technology being developed in the black, I hope it's being done in the United States. (1:09:12) And you know, there are, as you know, my friend Nick Pope who wrote the book, the great book, The Hunt for Zero Point 20 years ago, Nick basically speculated that there was a craft known as the Orroir that was secretly being developed. But I balance what Nick says was the fact that my friend Christopher Mellon, who ended up becoming, as you know, the deputy assistant secretary for defense for intelligence and was also before that, one of the senior staffers on the congressional oversight committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee. (1:09:37) He investigated and could not find any evidence of the Orroir for Robert Byrd, with a formidable senator who demanded to know if such technology was in the position of the United States. So somebody doesn't have the story. Somebody doesn't know what's going on and I'm still working through it. (1:09:58) I'm just a humble journal trying to make sense, you know, going through the entreles, trying to sort of make my prognostications. I haven't figured out yet for sure what to think. But I do err towards the very strong likelihood that the United States has developed anti-grivedic technology. But I'm not persuaded that the yet capable of interstellar travel and I'm not persuaded that it's yet good enough to be mass produced. (1:10:26) I'm persuaded that they're having terrible scientific problems trying to crack that technology. But I think we are on the cusp of breakthroughs and this is even already in some of the mainstream scientific literature. We are on the cusp of breakthroughs if we haven't already of room temperature superconductors, which is one of the holy grails that needs to be cracked for energy, containment to be enough or sufficient to maintain the kind of propulsion systems that we're talking about here. (1:10:55) A lot of people have said that the kind of anti-grivedic propulsion systems that have been rooted in the past by different technologists such as, for example, T-Tunz and Brun in your country, the one the frustration always was being able to contain that energy in a way that could then be instantaneously released in sufficient quantities. (1:11:19) And there is some speculation that there have been breakthroughs in room temperature superconductors that might allow that to be the case. But, you know, we've got patents like Dr. Salvatoree Paye from one of your naval research laboratories in the United States at Paxford. He's made claims and patents that are frankly astonishing. (1:11:37) And, you know, he's asserting that they are capable of breakthroughs with operable technology involving energy systems that are completely unheard of, you know, fusion reaction systems, which are, at the moment, still only theoretical in conventional science. The US Navy has recently made astonishing claims in patent applications that make me just wonder whether there hasn't been a breakthrough in the black that the US is sitting on and waiting to reveal. (1:12:11) Ross, thank you so much for talking with me today. It's a pleasure.