Ross Coulthart on UFOs and Disclosure - Classics Remastered

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This remastered interview includes bonus content of additional questions and answers originally made available only to members of Cristina's Patreon members club. To get your access to new member-only content,follow the link in the description. Tonight, I am joined by Australia-based journalist and researcher, Ross Colthart, who authored the 2021 Best Seller in Plain sight, and who also produced the documentary called "The UFO Phenomenon," which has had millions of views since it went upon YouTube in September of this year. Ross, I really appreciate you being (00:47) with us here this evening. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you very much. It's a hell of a time in UFOlogy right now. Very, very interesting things happening in the Congress. It is. And there has been recent big news out of Australia came with your seven news report published on the 19th of this month stating that Australian military witnesses to UFOs are going to speak out. (01:13) In it, you gave several reports from military service or intelligence veterans, most if not all of which, when unreported to military commanders or if given, the reports were dismissed. In your article, you voiced your opinion that you suspect this is not because of some dark conspiracy of defense and/or intelligence agencies to suppress the existence of UAP. (01:37) And you asked the question, quote, "Could it be that most of them are as confused as we all are about what these objects might be? And is it easier to ignore or ridicule the mystery than to deal with it?" So my question is this, have you received any reports or claims that at any point, the objects being seen have been picked up on radar or monitored on sensitive equipment and subsequent data recorded and sent up the chain of command? Yes, yes I have. (02:12) I've spoken just in the last few days since the documentary that we reprieved went to where almost a week ago. I've been receiving quite a number of emails, messages from people either serving or formally in the military services, mainly in the Air Force, but also in the Navy, who tell me that a lot of the things that have been seen by pilots off the West Coast and the East Coast of the United States, objects like the TickTack, large, high-pig of pardon, large black triangular objects, pyramidal objects, they've been seen and indeed been passed up the chain by soldiers, (02:54) military people who've told their commanders. And there's also a mixture, some of them have also realised that it's not good for your career to report these things. And so they've quietly sort of agreed with their colleagues with whom they've seen these objects, not to report them. (03:10) So there's a combination of both, but what I do detect is as a huge amount of momentum, there's a senator here in Australia called Peter Wiesch Wilson. He's an ex-Serviceman himself, former officer trained at one of the top military academies here in Australia. (03:30) And he has colleagues, friends in the military, who are now contacting him, telling him very similar things that they have also seen extraordinary objects in the skies. I've personally spoken to members of Australia's Air Force, the Royal Australian Air Force, the RAAF, and a number of them have actually told me that they have reported to their command that they've had objects flying in tandem with the aircraft, clear metallic disc-shaped lenticular objects that are tracking the aircraft, and nothing ever happens. And I actually think, (04:09) I really do think we have a saying in my line of work, which is always assume a screw-up before a conspiracy. And I know a lot of us leap to the conclusion that maybe there is some dark conspiracy here that there's somebody going around twiddling the knobs and basically saying, you shall not report this stuff. (04:32) But could it be, and this is why I asked this question in my article, because a few people have suggested this to me, could it be as simple as the military, your military, our military, British, French, nobody really wants to admit in the senior command that they are perplexed by this phenomenon. We're meant to have an omnipotent national security structure, we're meant to be protected by our military. (04:56) It's their whole credo that they define themselves by that they're able to protect the population. What if it's as simple as they just don't like admitting that this phenomenon is real? Because they can't understand it. I do seriously think that's a real possibility. I do think that there are people in your national security, defense, aerospace, infrastructure who do know the real story, but there are very small number of people. (05:25) I think and I assume that a large percentage of the command of both of our countries, military and intelligence is basically oblivious to what's really going on. I think that ultimately what happens is they tell themselves, you know what, we don't understand this, it's making us feel uncomfortable. Let's just ignore it. You know, it sounds legit and yes, maybe admitting that would be seen as admitting that there is an inherent weakness where there shouldn't be in military circles. (05:57) Were you also told if those reports that have been passed up the chain just subsequently disappeared without any feedback to the military witnesses and how often does this seem to be occurring to the best of your knowledge? Okay, well, you've got the official position and you have the unofficial position. So in Senit estimates, which is a bit like a congressional oversight committee here in our parliament in Australia, about two weeks ago, the chief of our Air Force, Mil Hupfield, who's a good guy, he's a he's a top gun pilot, you know, very well respected fighter pilot. He flew a combat squadron (06:32) in the Middle East during the Gulf War, hugely respected guy, but he gave evidence to the parliament that he was oblivious. He was completely unaware of any UAP sightings that had been reported during his time in command and he was not aware, frankly, of any anomalous sightings or reports that had been passed up the chain. (07:01) And the thing that fascinates me about this is the Royal Australian Air Force and tell about the early 1970s was one of the principal agencies in the world taking this phenomenon very seriously indeed. And I think Mel is just part of the new generation that have basically inherited the status quo, where fundamentally across all militaries, since the closure of Project Blue Book, there's been this stigma, this taboo that's been attached to the UFO subject that has essentially made the whole subject matter radioactive. And I've spoken to military commanders, (07:36) squadron commanders, pilot pilots, some of our top aircraft in this country, and they speak to me confidentially. And they tell me that there are sightings all the time in our Air Force, which cannot be explained. I've spoken to people in our intelligence services in our military who are aware of what's being seen through the DSP, the Defence Support Program satellites and the National Reconnaissance Organization satellites that we monitor in conjunction with your country, the United States, (08:08) through what is probably your most sensitive military base outside of the continental USA, Pine Gap. And the telemetry data from those satellites has been done through this facility near Alice Springs near Luru Air's Rock in the middle of Australia. And then it's sent back to America and analyzed over there. But there are Australian personnel who are seeing the telemetry data. (08:32) And I can tell you, I know for a fact that there are regularly a non-nomalous objects that are being seen by these operators that are being recorded. I've spoken to people who are privy to the information sharing within the Five Eyes Alliance, that is the UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, and increasingly Japan as an unofficial partner. (09:00) Just sharing going on, information sharing going on between the Five Eyes partners of a non-nomalous and identified aerial phenomena. I've spoken to people who've seen this data. It's being recorded, but clearly what's happening, I think, is there's a bit of willful ignorance going on? And I don't think it's a conspiracy. (09:16) I really don't. Mel Hubfield, our chief of air staff, is a good guy. He's not covering something up, I don't think. I just think that our Air Force is less resourced than say the US Air Force, which has billions of dollars to hundreds of millions. And I think their priority is basically keeping the tyres on on the F18s and the F35s that we've got because we've paid such a monster for them. (09:39) And frankly, the idea of having UAP monitoring is something that's completely off the radar for give the pun. So do you think a new generation then, of people getting into the military and government circles in the US and Australia, maybe trying to push UAP transparency to the forefront more than any prior time? Yeah, I do. I mean, look at Dave Freyver and Alex D. (10:06) Trick and all of the other pilots, all the pilots who've come forward from the Nimitz incident. I mean, they took some encouraging because they were aware and very conscious of the stigma in the taboo that's attached to the subject of UAPs. I think one article I recall reading said that when Dave Freyver came back from his engagement with the TickTack, the deck crew on board the Nimitz were wearing tinfoil hats. (10:29) I mean, people still take the mickey out of people who report the phenomena. I know there's still a taboo here in Australia's military, but I mean, to give you an example, I contacted recently, I found in our National Archives the name of one of our Special Forces soldiers, a warrant officer, quite a senior non-commissioned officer from our Special Essets and incredibly the file recorded the name of this Special Forces soldier. (11:03) And he'd seen an object hovering over the Royal Australian Air Force Base called LearMonth, which is way up in Northwest Cape in Far Western Australia, very near to the Northwest Cape Harold E. Holt Naval Communication Station, which is a vitally important facility for both America and Australia, particularly for the US because it's where you send in the event of nuclear war very low frequency signals to your submarines underwater to communicate with them in the event of a nuclear confrontation. So it basically makes that whole section of Australia (11:37) and nuclear target. And so it's interesting to me that this area, which is clearly at the nexus of that connection between UFOs and nuclear weapons, it's a nuclear facility, if you like, based on our soil. (11:56) It fascinated me that I found in our National Archives a report by two former Special Air Service warrant officers, very senior men in the regiment. They're the equivalent of seals or delta force in your country. And I contacted this guy and he was absolutely surprised to hear from me that his name was in public archives because he'd been a very well respected elite soldier in our military, but he was chuffed thrilled that his name was there because he wanted to talk about what he'd seen. (12:29) And you've got an imminent parachute drop by one of our most elite regiments, I think about a hundred men were jumping out of the back of a C-130 over this history. And as to plane approaches, a gigantic sphere comes from the horizon at high speed tracking ground, very close to the ground. And this guy was so astonished by what he saw and then what happened because they had four digital radios to communicate with the C-130 back-ups on back-ups on back-ups. (12:57) Every single one of those radios failed. There was some kind of electromagnetic interference that stopped them from communicating with the parachute drop. As a result, the whole military exercise was impeded. And they were concerned enough about this to make a report to special operations command who then reported it to the defense Air Force Intelligence Group who presumably also passed it on to the Americans. (13:19) I mean, it was a very clear sighting of an anomalous solid spherical object that disrupted communications for one of our elite military regiments, clearly a national security concern and national security threat. And he was concerned about this. And what struck me was he's a gentleman in his 40s, he's now retired, but he was really keen for me to write this story because he said to me that there were a lot of his colleagues who'd served in special forces in that part of Australia, in this area of Northwest Cape, where they keep this particular military base very secure, (13:56) they're constantly practicing for how to stop bad guys coming up the beach and knocking out these towers that would be used to communicate with nuclear submarines. So it's a very important strategic facility right on the edge of the Indian Ocean where russkeys or Chinese could presumably send commandos ashore. So it's a military priority for us to protect it. (14:19) And he was astonished that his file was public, but he said, this is really important that you're chasing this because he said, I know a lot of military people who've served in our military forces. And they're all talking about this, but because of the stigma, because of the taboo, they don't come forward. (14:37) And that's starting to change. Courageous, good people like Dave Fraver, Alex Dietrichs, Louis Luzondo, Chris Mellon, are now coming forward and talking about what they know. And we should support them, frankly. I mean, I don't buy into this ephology nonsense that there's some dark conspiracy theory that means that we have to be intensely suspicious of Elizondo or Mellon's motives. (15:02) Bottom line is they're pushing for transparency, openness, UFO disclosure, like the rest of us. There is keen for military personnel to be encouraged to give evidence. And yes, there is a sea change happening. There is a ground swell happening on the ground. (15:24) And I'm terribly worried that what we're seeing at this very moment in the Congress is an attempt by the Pentagon to head off the amendments that have been suggested by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, the Democrat Senator from New York, who's pushing basically for far tighter transparency rules to be imposed on the Pentagon. (15:45) And everybody listening to this at this very moment needs to get on their blower and bring their congressman, send emails, letters to their congressman, their senator, and lobby for the Gillibrand amendments to be included in the defense appropriations legislation. (16:02) Because frankly, if we don't, we're going to be spending another 50, 75 years sitting on our bottoms waiting for something interesting to happen in ephology, waiting for the displosures to be made. Because there are, there are very cynical religious zealots inside the Pentagon who are trying to stop you, the public, from finding an out about what the United States really knows about this phenomenon. (16:28) And there is a new generation, your generation that is pushing hard and laudably so for displosures to come. And it's always difficult for me as a journal, because essentially I'm a journalist, I'm not an activist. But I can see, I know I'm talking to people inside the Congress, inside the Pentagon, inside intelligence and defense. (16:46) And they're telling me that this is a critical moment. This is a juncture, an absolute paradigm position point in whether or not the American people, the rest of the world, get to know what the Pentagon knows about UAPs. You can't sit on your hands, everyone needs to get out there. And I know it's just before Thanksgiving, which is why the Defense Department has done this. (17:13) You're all hoping you'll just go away on holiday, have a nice sleepy weekend, forget about those pesky amendments that the good senators putting before the Congress. When in fact, this is the moment, you need to gird your loins and write letters to your congressman and get in there and start lobbying. Because I detect, I'm really heartened, my daughters, I've got two daughters and I love the way they engage with the subject matter. (17:37) They're not stigmatized by the taboo that has been deliberately attached to the subject matter by quite a deliberate disinformation campaign by the Pentagon and by the CIA. People don't realize that the reason why we giggle or smirk slightly when we're told about UFOs is because there was a deliberate decision made in the 1950s that it was time to shut down public scrutiny of the phenomena because it was embarrassing, frankly. And I suspect it's got a lot to do with the fact that the United States knows (18:12) a hell of a lot more about the subject matter than it's letting on. Yes, you're so right. And now more so than never. And I think it's so important, like you said, to get in touch with your representatives and demand action. And we have Louis Luzando and all those that you had mentioned, they are all very inspiring and doing so much for this movement, seeking the truth and accountability. (18:44) You mentioned nuclear facilities and UFOs being observed near them. And that's something that has a global history, many cases including the British RAF, Bentwater's case, and then the Maelstrom facility in the USA. Have you heard of any UFOs have being observed near the Pine Gap facility there? Yes, yes I have. Look, I commend to anyone watching this that they should read the definitive book on this subject matter by a wonderful bloke called Robert Hastings. (19:18) Bob Hastings lives in the middle of nowhere, way, way out in your Midwest, and he's just an absolute hero in my book because he has methodically traced since he was first exposed to the subject matter as a teenage boy, the connection, the irrefutable connection between UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomena, these anomalous objects in our skies, and nuclear weapons facilities, nuclear facilities of different kinds. (19:44) And that doesn't just mean nuclear weapons, it also means facilities that are using nuclear power, or facilities like the one in Northwest Cape in Australia, the Harold E. Holt Naval Communications Station, which is probably one of your more vital communication stations for getting signals out to your nuclear attack submarines in the event of God forbid nuclear war. (20:10) And yes, in Australia there is a very, very close link between facilities that we believe are very closely linked to your nuclear deterrence, Pine Gap, the Harold E. Holt Naval Communications Station, and other bases that are possibly too sensitive to mention, that essentially are irretrievably linked into ensuring that in the event of nuclear war there is a deterrence against either Soviet or Chinese aggression or Russian or Chinese aggression. (20:35) And we are aware of it, but I don't think people acknowledge it enough. I think that there is this kind of cognitive dissonance. When I spoke to Robert Hastings who wrote his fantastic book, UFOs and MOOCs, Rob explains to me something that I've never really understood before. He, in a magnificent piece of investigative journalism, he literally went round all of the reunion meetings of people who had served in intercontinental ballistic missile bankers all over the United States. And he just chatted to people, got to know them, made links with people, and slowly but (21:18) surely he realized it wasn't just the Maulmstrom, the Maulmstrom incident in the 1970s. Every single ICBM base, every single silo with a nuclear missile in it, had been visited by the phenomenon, that there were people who were prepared to testify to anomalous sightings over every single nuclear facility in the United States. (21:49) And that includes sensitive bases like your loss alamost nuclear weapons laboratory, the Nevada Test Range site, one of the things that really astonished me when I started going through your archives and your country's national archives, was that there's very solid records by scientists, the people who were at the loss alamost tests of nuclear weapons in the very early days in the 1940s, almost immediately that we started testing nuclear weapons, both in your country and in ours and in Australia. (22:21) It's not commonly known that Australia was one of the biggest nuclear test sites for the British at a place called Mara Linger in the South Australian desert. But every single time there were nuclear weapons tests in either of those countries, there were sightings of anomalous objects. And here in Australia, I was just amazed because there's essentially an untold history of South Australia, the some of the most remote desert, some of the most remote and empty landscape in the world, sadly, there were nomadic Aboriginal people still trekking that land in the days when they were doing these (22:57) tests. And it turns out that a lot of them were exposed to radiation. And this came out in a special commission, a Royal Commission of Inquiry by the British government and the Australian government that took place about 20 years ago. (23:15) It's quite scandalous, but in the course of the revelations that came out of that inquiry, there were astonishing admissions made that frequently during nuclear tests there were anomalous objects witnessed by military personnel, numerous military personnel, on radar, tracked on radar, chased by fighter jets, witnessed by commanding officers, put up in reports and sent up the military command, often cc'd to your services over in the United States, and all too often, nothing came of it. (23:50) And one of the heroes of this story, one of the things that amuses me when we have the chief of our enforcement Australia saying, this is not an issue, UAPs don't really feature on my radar is that back in the 1970s, one of the head scientists in the defence science technology organisation in Australia, one of our chief defence scientists, a guy called Harry Turner, he had been a physicist at Mara Linger, and fortunately when he was a young 20-something physicist, he'd been tasked to investigate some of these weird sightings of anomalous phenomena, and he realised and spoke candidly to colleagues of mine here in Australia, (24:30) he realised it was real, and he was perplexed that the defence department, both of Australia and of the US seemed determined to sweep this matter under the carpet, and so there's a magnificent report, which has now been declassified, which I had the pleasure of reporting in my book, which basically goes in detail into how Harry was pushing at the highest levels of our Air Force, to try and force systematic investigation into the phenomenon, and he was repeatedly rebuffed, sadly, he was essentially (25:03) shut down, but what he basically discloses in the now declassified report is that he had contacts in the United States, working both in defence, private aerospace, and intelligence with whom he was liaising as one of the top scientists here in Australia, and he was briefed quite adamantly that the United States had allegedly recovered exotic technology, craft vehicles. (25:33) He purported that the Roswell crash was real, and it's quite astonishing to read this in a defence department archive document from an official statement, an official report written by a very well-breed Australian scientist who was talking to your well-breed Australian American scientists, and he was basically saying, there is a conspiracy, there is a cover-up, there is something being sat on by the American government that it doesn't want the public to know, and it's outrageous, it should be reported, he was encouraging (26:04) the Australian Air Force to take a different position from the Americans, but sadly, and it still seems to be the case 50 years later, the Australian Air Force followed the way of the American Air Force, which has been, as you know, principally at the forefront of trying to shut down public scrutiny of whatever it is the United States government knows about this phenomenon, because Christina, I say this as a mainstream media journalist, I say this as I hope one of my countries more well-respected investigative journalists, we are now in a position with the subject matter of UAPs that we can no longer (26:43) dismiss it as frickery or nonsense, or treat it with the taboo or stigma that it's long been treated with. This is a subject matter that demands serious investigation, and frankly, I'm appalled that the New York Times and the BBC and other media organisations have greeted the Pentagon's announcement today of the ridiculously acronymed AOMSG new UFO transparency group that the Pentagon supposedly set up. They've treated it with such glibic symptoms when in fact what it is is a blatant attempt (27:22) to shut down the public knowing any more about UAPs than the Pentagon wants you to know. You know, basically there is a history here, and this is the thing that fascinated me. There is a factual counterfactual history going back 50, 60, 70 years. People don't realise that in the 1940s and the 1950s, some of the people leading the charge for America's military to be more open and candid about what it knew and what technology it was in possession of were people from the American military, senior generals, a senior naval officer, Admiral Roscoe Hillencoder, the former founding director (28:07) of the Central Intelligence Agency. These were people who because of their knowledge from within side the United States military industrial complex, they knew the US was sitting on information. And what the current generation of people don't realise who treat this subject matter with disdain and ridicule and scorn, what they don't realise is that they've been manipulated, and this was a turning point for me. It was a paradigm shift for me as an investigative journalist. (28:39) I realised when I looked at the documentation, there was a deliberate decision made by the CIA, essentially after the Robertson panel and the Condon inquiry, to shut down public interest in UFOs. And they did this in the most efficacious way possible, with ridicule. They told the public it's all nonsense. (29:02) Get on with your lives and just ignore this phenomenon. It's just perfectly explainable benign, pro-seic with a phenomena, misidentify the aircraft. It's nothing to worry about. Go away and get on with your lives and let us do what we're doing behind the scenes. (29:20) That's essentially what's been going on since about 1970, since the shutdown of Project Blue Book, which was, let's be honest, a blatant whitewash to shut down public inquiry. Even Jay Allen Heineck, who was originally on Project Blue Book, went on to subsequently admit that. (29:44) And what there's a great saying, people who ignore their history are condemned to repeat it. And this is why I wouldn't know it, there's critical juncture, because if we ignore our history, if we ignore the fact that we've been manipulated before, it's going to happen again. Without a doubt. And with all of that, it's so crazy to think of that. (30:04) We've just been going in this loop for decades. But how can that not be a cause for concern or further investigation from the public? Again, why would the government want to acknowledge the UAP secret to the public anyways? I feel like it's admitting confusion and perceived weakness. But I definitely think the people can handle that truth. And to be honest, I think we can deal with it. (30:32) And maybe even find a new found identity together to join hands, even with official departments to bring more understanding of this mystery. And the book you mentioned about UFOs and nukes, I will definitely check that out. So, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think we need to look at the reasons why government might be sitting on this secret. And it's funny, I wrestle with this. (31:00) I'm still working it through in my head because after talking to people on the inside, I'm very, very sure that there are people, a small number of people in your military and in your intelligence services, who are fully briefed into what some people have used domestically referred to to me as, quote, the program. (31:29) And if you believe, and I emphasize, if you believe what my sources say, they tell me that there has been since the mid-1940s, an active program underway to try to re-engineer, to back engineer exotic recovered, non-human technologies. Now, I know that's a big call, and I know a lot of people watching this might go, oh, that's just rubbish, you know, whatever evidence is there for that. (31:55) But I do think there is a strong possibility based on statements made by, for example, Louis Lazon, who the former head of the Pentagon's UAP investigation program, where he's acknowledged that the US is in possession of recovered exotic technologies that are currently being investigated. You've got people like Dr Eric Davis, who's now a very well-respected scientist, astrophysicist working with the aerospace corporation, a federally funded corporation. (32:19) He has spoken a couple of years ago quite openly about the fact that he believes that he's been briefed into the fact that the United States is in possession of recovered craft vehicles. Now, let's assume, just for the benefit of this conversation, that that's the case. If I was the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, or maybe the head of the private aerospace company that I suspect has got this sitting in their basement, I don't believe it's in the possession of the US military any longer. I believe there's been a sanitization operation done. (32:54) I think there's been a deliberate effort by elements of the military and the intelligence services to put whatever this technology is, outside of the scrutiny of oversight agencies like the Congress, oversight agencies like the Inspector General of Defense and Intelligence. And I think that's criminal. And this is the problem. (33:18) I do believe that there is a strong probability that people have committed serious crimes to conceal what America knows about the phenomenon. And it's a bit cool, I know. But I do believe that there are generals, admins, probably retired, who will one day be called to before Congress and asked to account for why they colluded and conspired to lie to the American public. A bit cool, huh? I think it's true, though. I really do. (33:50) I think that there has been an active decision made by very senior military and intelligence personnel, out of utter arrogance, hubris, to conceal something from the American public. And they might have convinced themselves that they were doing it for the best possible motives during the Cold War. (34:14) I think, yes, during the Cold War, during the dark days when, frankly, both of our countries were living with the ever-present knowledge that nuclear amygaden was a strong possibility. I could understand why it might have been important for recovered technology to be kept secret from the world, whilst it was being developed in the black. But my sources tell me that there's been an enormous problem that this technology, whatever it is, is so advanced. (34:37) It's so far beyond human understanding that the only way that it can ever be definitively cracked is with a collaborative human effort on the scale of the Manhattan Project. And that involves collaborative scientific investigation. It involves the sharing of knowledge, probably across countries. Now, I'm told that there is already an active program attempting to investigate and back engineer these technologies. (35:10) The closest we've come to any kind of recent public acknowledgment of this was the slightly weird crata, the cooperative research agreement that was done between Tom the Longs to the Star's Academy and the Defence Department, the US Army, when it was agreed that certain alleged metamaterials would be investigated by the US Army's research laboratories. (35:30) But I'm told that the investigations are much more profound that for years there's been an active investigation going on and to recover technologies. We've actually had now officials on the record. And this is so frustrating because a lot of mainstream media, when they actually talk to me, I'm getting a lot of phone calls from journal friends in major newspaper groups and television stations, all around the world who've read my book. And they're saying, "How can you be so sure about this?" And I've said to them, (35:59) don't talk to your own sources because it's not too hard to push aside the veil and find people inside the Pentagon, the Defence and Intelligence Infrastructure who are prepared to talk about this privately. They're terrified about speaking publicly because