Are the Tridactyl Beings ANCIENT ALIENS ? The Evidence Part 1

Show Transcript

This is part one of a four-part series. These episodes consist of interviewing those involved in the research of the NASCA bodies. This has never been done for an English audience before, where they go into detail on their research and their background. While the first interview is in English, the remaining three are in Spanish with accurate English subtitles embedded in the video. (00:39) If you would like to find the English dubbed version, you can do so on my podcast at Strang e and Unexplained. That link is in the description box below. Josh, thank you so much for being here with us today. I'm very excited to talk to you about these NASCA specimen bodies, however you want to describe them. (00:57) It's a heated topic. There's a lot of people that say, yes, they're real. There's a lot of investigations being done. Then you have the other half that says, "Oh, it's just a cake, it's fake, and all of these different things." I want to start off with this first question o f, "Why did you put your name out there? Why did you get involved in the research of these NASCA bodies?" It came about where I actually saw online on social media. (01:23) I don't remember if it was X or Facebook or Instagram, but I had seen a clip of Jaime Mosson presenting at Mexican Congress about these bodies, and I was kind of intrigued. I went and watched, I found online, a longer version, watched the whole thing. At the end, Jaime says, "We welcome all forensic experts from around the wo rld, scientists to come and review these and to examine them, to investigate. (01:57) " My father's a forensic scientist, former President of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and I sent him the link. I texted him, I said, "Have you seen this before?" That's how it started. I didn't really have, I didn't go looking for it. It's not that I was ever in these spaces previously. (02:20) It was just something that came up on my feet one day. What's your background? What do you do? Your speci alty? I'm an attorney. I'm a criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, and I've been doing criminal defense for 17 years. A lot of what I do is interviews. I do a lot of investigative work, but also I'm relied on to do a lot of legal work and answer some questions every once in a while. My role is multifaceted in this. (02:53) I've been asked to do a lot, and I don't mind. It's been interesting as I've gotten involved in this and learned a lot about it. How has the legal dispute with the Per uvian Ministry of Culture, how has it affected the investigation process? Well, from my perspective, the big push that I have that my father has is to test the specimens legally, ethically, with cutting-edge scientific methods that aren't available in Peru. (03:27) One of the issues is the bodies are there, but the ability to test them is not in Peru. We'd have to bring them to Europe or the United States, most likely, in any way, outside of Peru to have them tested. There's issues with customs, with moving them from one location to another. There's also an issue with Peru that they are part of the cultural patrimony. (03:51) Legally, we would need consent and permission from the Minister of Culture to be able to move the bodies themselves or even specimens, DNA or tissue samples to have those tests. Why is this blockage of getting them moved out of Peru into a different country to get better analysis on them? Well, that's a question for somebody else other than me, because it's really a question for the Minister of Culture is to see why they haven't agreed to do it as of yet. (04:29) We know it can be done. We know that last year is a great example. UC Santa Cruz, with Yale University, took DNA samples from Machu Picchu, from working class, the working class around Machu Picchu where they'd found human remains and had those tests. (04:55) They wanted to do DNA sampling and DNA testing to find out where the working class of Machu Picchu was from, what parts of Peru or other p arts of South America they may have come from. That was done just last year. They took DNA samples and had them tested at the laboratory at UC Santa Cruz. The issue really is the Ministry of Culture going to allow it because it's a signature and it's consent, then we would deal with US customs, which would be a little bit easier. That's what we were doing at the hearing two weeks ago, Christina. (05:30) That's why we were in Lima to testify in front of the public audience in front of Peruvian Co ngress is to discuss the issue of getting permission to have the bodies tested outside of Peru. Have you experienced any pressure to withdraw from these investigations? I've gotten a few nasty emails. I've gotten, I think it comes with the territory online. (06:01) There's a lot of comments and things of that nature. But I've had a couple threatening emails and but as far as what type of pressure do you mean professional pressure? Do you mean give me an example of what you're talking about? How do people perceive you knowing that you are a part of this investigation? You know, I've had maybe three clients talk to me about it and it's all been very positive. (06:41) They're very curious and ask a lot of questions maybe because they see me on social media that I was in Peru or putting pictures on Instagram or things of that nature and it raises some questions. But it's all been very positive. I'm certainly not getting clients and I'm certainly not losing clients from doing this. (07:01) That's definitely not my goal and I'm not making money doing this either. Christina, I've spent a lot of my own personal time doing this and I've not received a dime for this work that I've done. Are you a part of the lawsuit being filed for 300 million against the Ministry of Culture in Peru? I'm not. (07:26) That's being done by Hamim Osan in Peru with Peru be an attorney's. And so it's not something that is a lawyer or personally that I've had any input or work on. Have you seen these bodies for yourself? I have. I have on two different occasions. I've been to Lima and I've also been to Ica, the University of Ica. (07:51) So I've seen bodies in Lima on two different occasions and also at the University of Ica. And let's actually talk about the University of Ica. It's significant in this conversation that we're having right now because their university that has actually investigated some of these bodies. From your understanding, what bodies have they looked at and what information ha ve they found? The University specifically, Christina? Yes. Okay. (08:22) So the the university, there was four bodies that were there. There's Waluita, Maria, and then there's two of the 60-cinometer size bodies that are there. And so the universities have those for a while. I don't know exactly when they receive those, but it's been years is my understanding. And they are in being stored in glass cases in a room at the university. They have them stored well. (08:52) They've got diatomaceous ea rth in the bottom of the cases to help keep them dry. And they were very, very welcoming and rolled out the red carpet for us, truthfully, when we came to visit. They brought in a floraoscopy machine. They brought it in on like a like a e-haul for us because they're big. I mean, they're the size of a refrigerator and brought it in, which is a floraoscopy for your listeners. (09:21) It's almost like a live X-ray. And so we were able to myself with the US doctor. So my father, Dr. Rodriguez, who's an anthropologist, works for the state of Maryland. And the Denver medical examiner as well, we were all able to take a look at these things. And to view them live under floraoscopy. And then later some of the additional bodies under CT. (09:51) So you just talked about your father and I'm going to some more detail on that with his very understanding mind, being working in forensic science for how many years, few decades? Oh, as long as I've been alive, I mean, it's more than 40 years, Christin a. A lifetime, really. He's seen it all. He's seen everything. (10:18) What were his initial thoughts when you came across these bodies, saw them for the first time and did some forensic analysis on them? It's interesting is we went down there. Her goal is just to keep an open mind because they are so odd. There's nothing like these bodies in the fossil record. There's nothing like these bodies anywhere. (10:43) And there's so many different morphologies or phenotypes or however you want to desc ribe it of different bodies. And there's more than have been shown to the general public. There's even more out there. And so it's very odd when you go to look at them. So he is very pragmatic, very practical. For him, it's always, there's got to be a prosaic explanation. That's my father's position on everything. (11:07) And he's a retired colonel. He's a retired medical school and dental school professor. So he has a very pragmatic approach to things. And so I think he's been an open-minded sk eptic, even still today as to what these things may be. We know that they're real physical bodies. We know that they're tangible. You can touch them. (11:41) They're real in that sense, but what they are is the big question. And the answer may be different for the different phenotypes or different morphologies, the bodies. We don't know yet because our investigation is somewhat limited. The bodies are in Peru. We can't do any destructive testing on them. We don't believe that's appropriate. Not only legally and ethically, but scientifically at this point until we have permission. (12:07) And so anything that could be done that we would want to do to verify with these are Cardin 14, DNA, other genetic testing, we haven't been able to do yet because we're waiting on the Ministry of Culture to grant permission. So it seems like this very difficult process of getting this stuff done because from what I've seen across platforms is the frustration that people have when trying to find the dat a that's being conducted on these bodies, the different types of bodies as well. (12:41) So before we continue, where's a good place where people can stay up to date on the research of these specimens? Well, I wish there was more media about it. I've been blogging about them on my law firm website. It's mcdowellfirm. (13:02) com and I've also been blogging a little bit on another website forensic hyphen x.com. And that's just a website that I created to blog. My search engine optimization team f or my website was kind of pissed off at me a little bit for for blogging about mummies. So I moved them over to the other website. So my SEO team wouldn't be upset with me. But so I've been blogging over there a little bit. (13:31) So for me and for what I put out that's been over there on those two websites. The daily mail is been running a few articles about this. It's been in the New York Post. But there's not a great repository. I think US media has been slow to pick up on this story. (13:53 ) And if they knew what I knew, I think they'd be much more interested in following this because it's a fascinating story. As I've said, there's nothing like this in the world. And I can tell you with a hundred percent certainty that these these bodies are real. There are a lot of people say, they're cake or as you were saying a minute ago, they're real physical things that you can look at, touch and examine. (14:18) And we hope to examine them further, but with permission and a laboratory setti ng that we would have the ability to control the testing methods and modalities with permission. And knowing what the limits are from the Ministry of Culture working together in tandem to come up with a plan to say, this is how we plan on testing them and maintaining chain of custody, maintaining all the testing methods and modalities are cutting edge and up to date. (14:45) I think the big issue is either this is one of the most important finds in modern history. It can change the idea of human origins of our ancestry where we came from or it is one of the most sophisticated and complicated hoaxes in modern history. It's a forensic mystery. (15:12) And I've seen these bodies in person and they are phenomenal. And I've looked out on myself with, as I said, with three of the best forensic doctors in the world and they are incredible and they need further testing, but our testing has been limited. So I think the big issue that we need to explore and that we need to look at is can these b e tested further in a proper laboratory setting with the best methods and modalities? Because right now the bodies are stuck in Peru. I know that people have taken samples out of Peru and I know they've been (15:51) tested in various locations, but I worry about the same things we talked about a moment ago is about contamination, about collection, about chain of custody. And also what methods are they using to test these bodies or these samples? I know where several samples are. I know that peop le have smuggled them out of Peru. I disagree with it. I think it's on ethical. (16:14) I think it's unscientific and I know it's illegal. And that's why that's been part of our challenge is we want to make sure everything is done the right way, Christina. And because I don't think that's how science is done where you smuggle something out or do it surreptitiously. It's just that's not how it should be done. (16:33) That's not how one of the greatest, potentially one of the greatest findings in in modern archaeological history should be handled. Now unfortunately a lot of things have been made difficult by how these bodies were discovered because these bodies were discovered and recovered by wakeros, by graveropers. (16:54) The original site is no longer exists. It's certainly no longer exists in the form and format it was when it was discovered. And so there's been a lot of discussion about where the real site is. I know the main wakera mario has taken people to various different loca tions. (17:14) I don't believe any of those locations are the true location of where you found the bodies. I know they've been moved and stored in other locations. So from our an archaeological standpoint it's a mess and we can't recreate that and it's a real shame. But what we can do is we can use forensic methods and scientific technologies to find out what these are. Are these humans that have genetic defects? A lot of people have a lot of different theories. (17:44) I've heard them all, you know, time travelers, extraterrestrials, hybrids. And I am very cautious because you know I have a pragmatic and practical position on this too which is let's test them, let's find out. I don't think speculating too much gets us anywhere. (18:05) I mean it's fun and it's makes for great conversations but it we're not to the point where we know what they are yet but we can find it out really easily and it just requires the Ministry of Culture and the scientific community at large to get together to say let's work together and get this done. We can find out what these are. (18:23) And then once we find out what they are we can decide where they should go. Is it a museum? Is it rebarial? Is it putting them in a holy site at one of the temples down in the Nazca region? I don't know and that's not really my decision to be to be made at all. (18:43) That's something for the Ministry of Culture and the indigenous community to decide. But I think we first need to find out what they are to be a ble to make that decision. And you've been on the front lines for some time now. You've been able to see the bodies firsthand. Speak to the researchers, conducting the investigations and the analysis and he've also seen how the news has been carrying this topic. (19:07) What are some main things that you've noticed that you would classify as misidentification or even really spewing nonsense out there that you've caught and you're like that's not true at all that you could share with us. That's a great point. (19:27) And that came up again recently just a couple of weeks ago when we were at the hearing in Congress in Lima is there was two different anthropologists that were there that were showing dolls that were basically an art project that were made to look like the Nazcomamis. These were about 18 inches tall. These were confiscated at the airport in Lima and the Flavio Estrada, who is an anthropologist that works for the state, showed these and said, hey look these are hoaxes. These are poorly manufactured. And that was about a year and a half ago. (20:07) And here we are again just even a couple of weeks ago he's showing these same dolls dressed in a big yellow and pink dress and saying, look these mummies are fake. These are manufactured bodies. These are clearly fake. They're made of glue and we've tested it and I agree with them. (20:30) What he has and what he's tested are in fact dolls made of glue and chicken bones or whatever types of bones. I'm not interested in w hat Flavio Estrada was showing at his press conference. And problematically the international media picked up that story and said, well the mystery has been solved. It's a hoax. These bodies are dolls and that's the end of it. (20:53) Even today if you google it you'll see Reuters and some major news sources that are the first, second, third, Google results when you google the Nazcomamis. And it's disinformation and it's purposeful disinformation. I know it is because they've continued to do it. bodies like Fernando, Paloma that we were able to see when we were just down there a few weeks ago. (22:03) These were 100% definite without a doubt real living organisms at some point. And that's not what's been shown by Flavio Estrada as the Nazcomamis. He's tried to conflate and confuse the topic. And I want to make sure that the public at large understands that these 12 or 16 inch tall dummies or dolls are not the Nazcomamis that we've been studying. (22:31) What role has international coll ith their time and great to work with. We've also worked with a Mexican docs. (23:15) So doctors all say doctors all say Benitez has been making the rounds on media recently and talking about these. And he's a forensic doc with the Mexican Navy, a really great doctor and even better human being. And it's been great to work with these different doctors to examine them and have different points of view, maybe different perspectives. (23:35) And then also the American doctors. So when we went down, maximal facial with the the oral and head examination, but there's so many different oddities on these bodies that we thought was important to have other experts as well with us. (24:33) Can you tell us the implications and significance of the NASCA bodies? Like how is this important? What are you what are your findings? And why should people pay attention? I think that's that's the real big overarching question, Christina. And I think it really depends on what they are. (24:54) That's what the e's so many different theories that once we find out those answers and we know what they are, then I think that question will be very easily answered. Because the significance of the bodies depends on what the bodies are. (25:49) And if they are a different line of human evolution or if they are simply something like, for example, the Vodoma tribe in Africa that has a small group that has a genetic defect where they have toes and hands that have two fingers. And it's very widely found in that co the answer or will get us to the answer. And so I think we're putting the cart before the horse a little bit to know what the importance is. (26:55) I think we need to know what they are, then we'll know what the importance is. Josh, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Today I really appreciate it. You're welcome, Christine. It was really nice to meet you. 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