BOB LAZAR Story of UFOs being Reverse Engineered Part 2

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How are you guys doing today? Hi Cristina, thanks for having me on here and greetings to my friend Jimmy Jimmy I'm just messing with her I just I had to do that Richard it's uh it's great to see you my friend and uh I want to thank your agent uh and and the negotiations um Richard thank you so much for joining us I know you're only going to be I know I know you have your own show to prep for today so you'll only be with us for about 30 minutes of mysteries with the history so let's just get right into it (00:43) so today I'd like for us so today I would like for us to cover more the actual claims themselves and what since the time those claims were made has been verified or confirmed but before we go there Jimmy last week you said that for 30 years you were Ardent Bob Lazar believer but that something changed your perspective can you give us just a very brief reminder of what it was that turned you more skeptical of his claims yes and uh and thank you for that and and what is u h uh crazy about this is Richard and I have had this exact uh (01:23) discussion uh so many times before and just recently uh Richard and I were together out here in Los Angeles and uh no actually we we were together twice we were together in Laughlin and we were uh together here in Los Angeles and both times Richard spun around to me and said okay Church let's talk Lazar and and give me your best and and I said okay let's go and so Richard and I um are very aware of of how the community uh look s at Bob Lazar on on both sides and and and the two of us have tried our best uh to talk through (02:04) this and it's not an easy thing to do and one of the things that I said to Richard recently I said look you know I was I was 30 years you know 30 years um uh I was I was firmly behind Bob but things have changed and Richard said well what was it right give that to me and Richard did we not have this exact conversation just recently we did and U look if I if we go more than 30 minutes I'll go more we'll see how this goes but yes you and I did and I'm still not really 100% certain of why you have a (02:42) different opinion but I'll just say this um I wrote I have a couple of funny things to say about this so when I first broke into the UFO field over 20 years ago one of the first public events I did was in St Louis and um it was for a tiny little group of I maybe 10 people attended I'm not kidding you but one of the other presenters other than me I was brand new was Stanton fredman s o it was myself Stanton uh Carol Rosen was there a few other folks and there was no one in attendance this was right after 911 it (03:14) was crazy but one of the things that Stan in the I remember in the airport on the way back Stan sat me down like we had never talked before and he's like sizing me up and first question we sitting across from this tiny little airport table and he wanted to know what I thought of Bob Lazar and back in 2001 I have to honestly say I didn't know a lot about Bob La zar like I it had taken me everything I could just to write a history of the early years I knew basically nothing from 1973 onward so I didn't really know what I thought (03:49) about Lazar but I was a little I have to say and I loved Stan but I was a little put off by the fact that he was trying to brow beat me uh that early into having a skeptical opinion on laar uh but over the years when I wrote my second volume of UFOs in the National Security State I Lazar was one of the things that I was hings Lazar has said his education which Stan brought up you know over and over again MIT Caltech there's no evidence he went he took any courses there it's possibly audited courses you know and and I'll just say this one thing about people who lie about their (05:33) education today that's like an impossibility but I will just say back in the 80s and 90s may not be a good thing but people lied about their education all the time and that's fact they did it all the time and I know this because I n anybody that I know uh spent a lot of time with him so nap could not I don't think that he confirmed the S4 connection but he certainly did confirm the Los Alamos National Labs connection from 1982 83 and then what George has said is that you know Lazar was the first one to come to him about claims of Area 51 and S4 (07:18) but certainly not the last and over many subsequent years George has interviewed I think about he says 25 or so about two dozen individuals who in his assessment have corro n that certainly seemed to be legit um he was able to get George knap original you know the original versions of of many stories that George was later able to get corroborated by the way George's all of his later Witnesses according to George uh were able to provide a fair amount of detail but none were willing ultimately to come forward forward publicly they were all afraid so that's what we have so that's (09:05) just to start with Lazar there's probably more we can talk about and uh you know 10:23) the story itself was original and broke it Area 51 uh all of these subjects uh were were around Bob and we all appreciate the world did not know about Area 51 to Bob Lazar that's right so so we were all willing to give him a hall pass uh on so many things and I was one of them but what did it for me at the end of uh I'm getting an echo I think Richard mute your mic for a second just mute yourself and let me see yeah it's Richard okay all right sorry about that let me see if can fix that y e deception but what's the story behind that well um uh the the short (12:22) version of it Richard I went into this at length last week um Bob there is there is uh a collector and a hobby for everything in the world and there are hobbyists that collect the elements from the periodic table okay you start with here and you try to collect you know it's like stamp collecting or coin collecting right okay so but there are certain elements on that chart that are difficult to get to plutonium right ho by the way I got earbuds on so hopefully there's no more yeah it's all cool it's all cool um has anyone asked Jeremy or Bob like what the (14:17) why the shenanigans for the video I think that would be important like I would want to hear what they have to say about I'm not here to absolve Bob on this but was this Jeremy's doing did and did Bob just grudgingly go along with it like there these are important things to keep in mind sure and also I would just emphasize this is also 30 plus years af b's claims you've got uh some very very interesting claims from James Goodall who's a amazing guy in my opinion um it's not clear to me if Goodall's claims were I don't think they (15:50) were public before lazzar's claims were although Goodall was investigating a lot of this stuff in the mid1 1980s so there's that in other words he was um US military and an aviation writer and had a lot of very good contacts within uh Area 51 I don't think he designated S4 specifically but he absolutely knew ab is witness testimony is one thing and that's great but uh and and cooperation but just something some something that we could uh put our teeth into um a document a piece of paper a photograph an ID you know anything to support this because if you have that one little thing then sure (17:49) we're only dealing with the UFO coverup and deep black privatized special access programs what's the problem getting and and that's what uh that's what we've been waiting for and and see um uh uh without tha like him coming like not coming forward with that amazing evidence to be scrutinized by other scientists puts a nail in his claims totally agree it's a problem I was just about to get to that Christina good I'm glad you mentioned it you know he and Lear supposedly had a piece of element 115 they did some kind of (19:28) experiment with it I think and uh that seems very odd I mean look our ability to replicate Element 115 gives us an isotope that has a halflife of like a split second at the most e privately senson goes there it's November 1988 and he's um at a Lockheed big hanger and he hears he sees this the hovering Flying Saucer and there's a General at a Podium talking about this operating on the on the vacuum on principles of the vacuum so this is 1988 it's the year before the first paper on Zero Point Energy presumably maybe this General was talking about Zero Point Energy we're (21:13) just guessing this was at Norton right it was said to be at Norton but it was actually at the H th his wife so on but he might have been psych profiled this is according to the late Gordon Noel and they feed him a line of bull and then that gets out and then the competitors are like oh crap Element 115 we're never going to be able to make this let's just give it up so that Lazar could have been actually giving genuine disinfo without knowing it now the one problem with that with that analysis by Gordon is that Lazar himself claimed (22:53) with Lear to have had Element 115 so what the hell our response and also Christina let's let's paint this picture for a second is it possible that Bob got a job set foot flew out Janet Airlines eg&g sets foot on at Area 51 walks the tarmac leaves the plane that that actually happened and then the rest of it got out of control for him and and he was put on a pedestal and the next thing you know he is not in control of his ego but here's the problem with that if you go to lazar's statements in 1989 1990 they are very detailed very they're the best g this out there is a possibility the things that um uh the hard documents (26:12) that surface of which I'm GNA say uh there's three maybe four one his uh his ID badge um two his W2 three the newspaper at Los Alam with him on the cover and for the phone directory at Los Alamos that's got his name in it okay so we have these four you know I would say documents but the ID badge didn't turn out to be real apparently allegedly and the W2 had uh uh uh clerical errors in it and so we could almost rem adline that newspaper was out and chatted with teller impressed teller who said oh well young man here's my phone number if you need a (28:07) job give me a call and then some years later he is a bored out of work guy working in a photo lab he's 29 years old thinking what am I gonna do with my life and he he makes the phone call and gets connected to this that he actually never stated who we got connected to he said he lost the paper but there was a name and phone number there that he was connec anyone would be able to support what he has to say one of the things that he said um in those videos by the way I still think are uh some of the most fascinating uh uh pieces of video and I've always tried to uh I've seen him (29:45) hundreds of times literally and he never messed up in those videos I wanted not not in a a physics sense or scientific sense but just in a in an aura sense and he presented himself uh really well but what he said in those videos Richard um was that and nobody ever r out and you can't just figure these some of these things out by chance it seems to me so there's something there and there are enough people rapidly supporting him who who've known him that I've just personally never been comfortable with uh with tearing his story down I know that Eric Davis just thinks lazar's full (31:38) of BS now but I will just say years ago um yeah I'll just say years ago I I wrote to put off about how put off and so what do you think about Lazar and and put off never said om my degrees I have do you have photographs of you and Friends they're falling to pieces like my I actually don't know where my degrees are they're they're around somewhere but I've got them um yeah there's photographs um that I have I I don't have a lot I mean I and Lazar is a little older than we are so I went to school I was an undergraduate from 1980 (33:34) to 1984 and I do have photographs from that time um just thinking yeah I could pull it up like I could well I don't know if they're id o the school like the impression that I got you know listening to there was a lecture Lazar gave at the international UFO Congress in I think it was 2011 I was there and God I wish I had a copy of that lecture it's probably available but I think he was auditing those classes I think isn't that what he said he was auditing classes at MIT or Caltech he wasn't really going for degrees like he was just sitting in yeah (35:13) and there were thought he had a friend who went there exactly there were s k at it in today's uh if we frame it with today's knowledge what always impressed me about Bob was the subjects that he was talking about 35 years ago you know we're in 2021 this is a long time ago and these Concepts these ideas uh were very very uh Forward Thinking uh the whole idea of bending space and time which he was talking about like think in 1990 if I'm not mistaken yeah when did Al caber's equations come out they were later G kuer did his uh the early 2000s late 1990s early 2000s it was m reading documents so then that means he had excuse me four or maybe five actual (38:32) physical visits where he saw a craft and you really have to wonder like how much work are you really going to be able to get done how much math are you really going to do how much are you actually going to learn that's detailed technical knowledge uh and how much are you just hearing from other people who are working there I'm going to guess a lot of the latter like I don't care how smart you are um he's co icist as a theoretical physicist that uh with Advanced degrees from Caltech and MIT these are the this is what came out of (40:11) his mouth this wasn't put into his mouth and if you've attended and and taken those classes and studied you know math you know algorithms and you know how theoretical physics is written and understood what he was is a smart guy who might have taken some Physics classes well let's let let's stay on that and let's imagine that back then when he was in school that there g was the word though and that was the word they used right right he was Pimp Daddy Lazar that's what they tried to yeah but it was obviously a smear I mean it was clearly a smear campaign yeah yeah yeah (41:52) so you could see this this guy is thinking oh crap like and he he knew why because it was all with the UFO connection none of that none of that would have been a big thing if he hadn't been connected with UFOs previously so he's obviously someone who thought I stepped into this stepped i ney maybe that's the case with Lazar I don't know I'm not here to say oh absolutely I'm 100% convinced Bob Lazar is truthful in every way I'm not but I just I don't like the um I don't like the idea of completely tearing his story apart I (43:20) think I don't know there's something about it that strikes me as legit always has and it still does do do you think um uh as I do that for United nuclear to be allowed to continue with its govern contracts right yeah that if if uh if that if the governm rgue that a government agency would like that bastard he ratted this whole classified operation out we'll never never hire him for anything like there could be that response as well which that's what I thought you were going to go to so um I mean you could really (45:05) interpret that either way it seems to me fact that they they have no problem with them could mean yeah it was all make believe and it had no effect on National Security like that could also be the argument that that could be and United nuclear right let him let him go and uh let's let this whole thing die down and while we're in the conversation about the claims and I want to go back to the actual claims themselves you know the the the documents he allegedly read about how some of these crafts that he said to be that he saw in hangers were actually recovered and some were damaged (46:48) how much of that information he came out with was original back at that time as opposed to what was written in the Majestic 12 papers ut Area 51 in there there's nothing about S4 there's nothing about reverse engineering or anything like that and there's certainly nothing about eight or nine craft being stored anywhere so all of that with with Lazar as far as I can tell is new but but we do know that I was mentioning James Goodall who is getting stories according to him according to Goodall by in the mid 80 so that's earlier than Lazar but I don't I am not of the opinion I don't (48:33) think Goodall was publicizing those stor Zone you definitely had Bill (50:03) Moore going into the magic Majestic MJ Zone and how much would Bob have known about that then John Lear yeah yeah possibly Le Lear and Cooper were deep into this in 1988 in 1988 and what was the um paranet paranet started that was like that's the beginning of UFOs on the internet everyone it was no graphic anything it was just clunky old bulletin boards black screen with white letters that started 1984 84 and Magic um and there was a UFO community that was y was a show yeah yeah it was B and I'm pretty sure if I'm not mistaken that (52:16) cooper cooper was referred to Lazar quite a lot once Lazar became a name like everyone was talking about Lazar um I'm pretty sure Cooper was writing to Lazar at least according to Cooper and then anyway that would not have anything to do with lazar's story itself because that because he would have talked about all of this before yeah there was nothing in the mj12 documents though Christina uh about uh uh Element search before that was basically dominated by a few people who would publish books no self-publishing back then and like the muon journal which had a circulation of less than 2,000 can you (54:08) imagine no I mean it's just like no one was reading this stuff and then there was the iur the international UFO reporter which even fewer people were reading like it was just like a dead Community compared with what we have and and which meant if you had interesting ideas how are you going to get them hink he he had this capacity of believing his own pathological lies that's that's another conversation not that everything he said was a lie but I think he he's someone who fell in love with Fame I think without a doubt but but there's so much that was coming out at this time I personally don't think it (55:53) was all nonsense I think that there's there's a there's a there there there's fire there Richard um Richard right right before you leave I just have one more question for you and um that e even though he didn't believe Lazar and he didn't believe a lot of things um I think he had a good capacity for withholding final judgment on things being comfortable with uncertainty which is a great Zen Buddhist book by the way comfortable with uncertainty but it's a good concept to live by because I mean we're in a field that's hey it's over (57:35) our head a lot of this is just over our head I think we're dealing with an intelligence that we're just not equipped I just don't think we're f w when we could the door is always cracked you know I'm not one to you know and and and and I said Stanton are you saying with the possibility you know and and I think he was he was okay with that I think Stanton realizes that uh his work and Science and physics and you know he's a nuclear physicist is nothing but a series of Corrections that's what science is right and and you are (59:29) constantly wrong because you were proven wrong and then you move forward that's how science advances right ng right now five minutes before Showtime was just oh I got Christine and Dolan I gotta go so uh I just did a I just did a thing from my website on uh more on totalitarianism as it is encroaching around us in the world not a UFO thing but I I'll probably do something on uh YouTube about that soon oh that's interesting well we are going to be right back after this short break that was so awesome to hear both you and (1:01:09) Richard talk about this boob Lazar case because